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Video Transcription edited for grammar. We disavow any errors unless they make us look better or smarter.
Rey Treviño [00:00:00] Here we are at the Nape Expo 2024 for another awesome interview. Today it’s with Jim Holmes of LFS chemistry on this episode of The Crude Truth.
Rey Treviño [00:00:52] Nape is a proud sponsor of the Crude Truth. Be sure to register for the Nape Expo 2024 for February 7th to the ninth at the George R Brown Convention Center in Houston, Texas. Hurry and register today. Nape where deals happen.
Jim Holmes [00:01:41] Good afternoon. Thanks for having me here Rey.
Rey Treviño [00:01:42] Jim, how are you doing?
Jim Holmes [00:01:43] Wonderful.
Rey Treviño [00:01:44] Thank you for coming out.
Jim Holmes [00:01:45] Couldn’t be better,.
Rey Treviño [00:01:46] Man. It’s been a full morning over here. Already has.
Jim Holmes [00:01:48] It has is busy. Just getting here.
Rey Treviño [00:01:50] Busy getting here. And you’ve been talking to everybody. You’ve been chatting with everybody. I swear, everybody knows you.
Jim Holmes [00:01:57] Well, that’s, that’s why we come down here. That’s the latest.
Rey Treviño [00:01:59] And first of all, before I jump into anything else, I want to say thank you very much for being a sponsor not only of Crude Truth, but of us being here at Nape. Here. Absolutely. So thank you so much for LFS chemistry and all that you all are doing. But I do want to say is congratulations. I, you know, I heard just heard that you guys won that Darcy award for 2023 for innovator of the year for you all surfactants, which if people and I know we had so many people that well listen we’ve talked about those in the past. Congratulations. And the reason main reason for it. But you know, I take it is that’s an independent award. That means y’all don’t even have it. Say y’all subscribe to anything or anything. That is an independent group that comes in and says, y’all are the guys to have in the EMT world for chemicals.
Jim Holmes [00:02:46] That is that is a fact. That’s exactly how it’s done. We have no input. We weren’t even notified really until a couple of weeks before that we were in the running for it. So it’s, it is an incredible award for a company like ours. We we couldn’t be more grateful and thankful for for that. That’s, you know, voted on and strictly referral base from the MPs directly. So it’s it’s incredible.
Rey Treviño [00:03:06] Well, I mean, it’s the you mentioned MPs. I mean, I’ve just now seen you talking to several and I mean, everybody loves each other. Joining us for those out there let’s talk about a surfactant. Well you know again I know maybe we discussed it before, but you know let’s give us a bird’s eye view one more time on surfactant.
Jim Holmes [00:03:21] Absolutely. So surfactants are, you know, commonly misunderstood chemistry. They’re used in virtually every industry and almost every product that you can think of, liquids and dries. It doesn’t. Doesn’t really care which direction it goes that can be formulated in so many different ways, to do multiple different things. They can act as solvents. They can act as surface tension reduction. They can act as interface interfacial tension reduction. There’s so many things that can they can do, we’ve taken those to a new level in the fact that we run with a bio based surfactant, which we can mass manufacture, which is vastly different from some of the other bio based surfactants that are on the market today. So we hit a value proposition, in our formulations. So we’re not as expensive as some other bio based surfactants on the market, and we generally outperform them. And that’s why the MPs are really liking what they’re doing, right. It’s a measurable step in performance. They’re doing exactly what we say they’re going to do. And I think it comes down to, you know, you don’t over promise. And you don’t under deliver. Right. So we’re we’re a value add chemistry and, and these surfactants, no matter how we’re using them, whether it’s for flow aids in micro emulsions or in other aspects of the of the chemistry world, are performing as well as we want them to.
Rey Treviño [00:04:44] And now you also mentioned bio. So that means that you guys are doing are providing a chemical that’s actually environmental friendly. Correct?
Jim Holmes [00:04:51] That is correct.
Rey Treviño [00:04:52] Yeah. Yes. That’s huge. Yeah. Especially today in 2023 or 2024. Excuse me while.
Jim Holmes [00:04:58] We ask.
Rey Treviño [00:05:00] That that you guys are doing something because, you know, a for an epi company. Can you give, everybody out there an example of why the amp company calls you, like, what’s their phone call there and what they call you?
Jim Holmes [00:05:12] Sure. Usually starts with a with a problem or an issue that needs attention or, or resolution. And we put our best foot forward and get our technical group involved and, and decide if the off the shelf formulations solve those problems. Or we need to custom formulate, based on a very specific problem. Right. There’s surfactants are also very sensitive. So they’re sensitive to salinities and temperature and ranges and, and all kinds of things that MPs fight. Right. So whether you’re treating something downhole or you’re treating something on the surface with a surfactant has very different parameters that it needs to function within. Yeah. So it usually starts with a, the the current products aren’t function in the way that we want them to. Can we do better or we have this new issue that we haven’t necessarily encountered in this particular region before. And we need some help resolving that. Yeah. So.
Rey Treviño [00:06:04] Well, I tell you what, I know you were here at Nape and, you know, was really very specific that you were looking at visiting or any exciting movies that you’ve seen so far. Other than the cost of crude truth, you know.
Jim Holmes [00:06:14] Well, this is the whole reason I’m down here with it. You know, there’s a hit. This is a great conference for for having all of the the key decision makers at the MP level in one spot. Right. So I was up at Fgcu earlier in the week, in the Woodlands. And that’s a that’s always a great conference. Yeah. It’s it’s almost a shame that these two conferences kind of compete with each other on the timing. Yeah. But it’s also different people at each conference. So, you know, here you get a lot of the, you know, the people that can make a lot of high level decisions. Yeah. You know, whether it comes to modifying AF or budgets or anything like that. And, and, you know, up at FTC, you’ve got more of the engineer level that’s, you know, the executioner having to make some of those decisions and make it work. Yeah. Right. So it’s I’ve got I’ve been in the industry quite a while. So I’ve got a lot of a lot of contacts and a lot of friends in the business and, and a lot of what I’m doing today is just shaking hands and, and saying hi to people that don’t get to see enough.
Rey Treviño [00:07:08] Know.
Jim Holmes [00:07:08] And that’s the beauty of nape is, you know, for us as a service company, we’re not really selling anything here. This is more about just facilitating relationships.
Rey Treviño [00:07:18] I got a question. How did you get in? Because I see you got a tag and you did not text me. Did you think, you know.
Jim Holmes [00:07:26] If I might have paid a little. Get in here. That’s all right.
Rey Treviño [00:07:31] Thank you.
Jim Holmes [00:07:32] We’d like to support.
Rey Treviño [00:07:33] Yeah.
Jim Holmes [00:07:33] We’re here to support. It’s a great group, great organizing, great people here. Just like to be here.
Rey Treviño [00:07:41] I had. I had ticket for it.
Jim Holmes [00:07:43] We’ll still take the ticket. I know I need one that says crude truth on it.
Rey Treviño [00:07:47] No no no no no. I know it’s on everyone. Okay?
Jim Holmes [00:07:51] We can go that route to.
Rey Treviño [00:07:52] If you want. I just said drink before. I’m so sorry.
Jim Holmes [00:07:58] So I actually had registered for this way in advance.
Rey Treviño [00:08:01] Oh, you do the 90 day thing? Yeah, yeah, way in advance.
Jim Holmes [00:08:04] So it was. It was a moot point by then. I was planning to come anyway.
Rey Treviño [00:08:08] So. Well, that was us. We got, rescinded, I think after, like, after this 1 in 90 days are going to be sending out the tickets. I hope we get the early work.
Jim Holmes [00:08:19] Absolutely. Earlier the better. Yeah.
Rey Treviño [00:08:21] And, that was one thing I was talking to, Christy about how much is as well as if you give today. It’s not a particular problem, but it’s worth it, even though. Because if you find the right deal.
Jim Holmes [00:08:32] Oh, of course.
Rey Treviño [00:08:33] You know, you make the right connection, which is definitely worth it being here. Like you’re saying, you’re out here shaking hands, you know, people, doing your part. Stay. So, you know, one thing that I enjoyed about our conversation is, you know, sharing your knowledge, being an entrepreneur almost wholly, totally off rails here. You have now spoken, with JP Warren for his exact, exact. And you’re part of that as well? That’s correct. I’m sorry I missed the speech, but, I mean, what are your thoughts? I’m so excited that you’re actually out there talking, sharing your knowledge, and then more of a great spot.
Jim Holmes [00:09:07] Well, it’s, you know, something that we’ve I think you and I have talked about in the past is never miss an opportunity to present yourself. Yes. And and what you believe in and what your company stands for. And, you know, I’ve got a lot of blind spots as one of the terms that JP likes to use when we’re, when we’re in these meetings is, is we all have blind spots. And sometimes it takes, a group of people that don’t have the same blind spots to really point those out. So, you know, a lot of what we, what we talk about and, and what’s wonderful about being a part of that organization is, is we’re really just helping each other. Yeah. You know, I’m so far from perfect. It’s unbelievable. And, and and I’m surrounded by people that are that are smarter and and better in a lot of ways. And there’s opportunity where I can be that person as well. I’ve got certain life experiences that others may not have had already. Yeah. You know, and happy to share those.
Rey Treviño [00:09:58] Well, you know, and I’m glad you said we shared that before, because there’s just showing up that, hey, I, I practice what I preach. You know, it’s like, because I remember, you said that I was like, man, you know, I never miss an opportunity to speak. I do my best because you’re always working, you know, working on yourself. And I think it’s just need that somebody that, as I would say, is a coach basically also gets coach. And that’s something else. Another good friend of mine said, it’s like, you know what? If I’m gonna be a coach, I better at least be a coach. I’ll coach a ball, and I think that goes a long way.
Jim Holmes [00:10:29] It does. You should always be open. Yeah, right. Even if you get advice that may not be perfect, you can always take something from it. Right. It’s it’s like behind every joke, there’s a little bit of truth.
Rey Treviño [00:10:41] Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Jim Holmes [00:10:42] Yeah. So same principle. And that is no matter how great you think you are at something, there’s always room for improvement. Yeah. You know it’s. It’s all your.
Rey Treviño [00:10:50] Open. I know you got to be open and you got to be. What is it? Constructive criticism. You can’t just go, but, but you also have to be open to. And I know, for me, in fact, I’ve been trying to get more snow for the last six weeks. And, yeah, I doesn’t like any of the.
Jim Holmes [00:11:09] Working grass.
Rey Treviño [00:11:09] I know,.
Jim Holmes [00:11:10] I’m on the same boat.
Rey Treviño [00:11:10] Are you what?
Jim Holmes [00:11:11] Since January 1st?
Rey Treviño [00:11:12] Okay, I did January 1st, and then I got into this thing called 75. That of it. It’s hard.
Jim Holmes [00:11:19] It’s meant to be hard.
Rey Treviño [00:11:20] Yes. But it’s supposed to be a challenge. And I’m doing these 45 minute workout twice a day, and it’s it’s crazy to me. You’re finding the time to do it. And, you know, I had one going, oh, that’s too hard. And I’m like, my God for 75 days. So not to continue to work out today, but my my butt better be able at least do one a day, you know, do one good workout a day, you know, and and you got to keep your health. I mean, that’s something I know that you like is always keeping your health. Just as important, especially with your team over there.
Jim Holmes [00:11:49] Absolutely. Well, and it it’s one of the hardest things to do. It’s it’s easy to be lazy. Yeah. It’s easy to let yourself go. It’s easy to, to eat too much. You know, those are easy things to do. Creating new habits. Which is why the 75 day program is wonderful for creating habits. Yes. And I think a lot of that applies also to business. Right? We we can tend to get lazy in business. Right? We can tend to. A little bit tunnel vision. Focus on one area rather than looking at the entire environment around us and how we can do better, how we can better support the organization and the people in it and it it. You know, to JP’s credit and the coaching that goes on there, it’s, you know, sometimes you got to take a step back and say, we’re not really doing what’s best and we need to change our habits.
Rey Treviño [00:12:36] Yeah. So and it’s hard to change. I mean, you talk about it’s easy to eat all you want to be lazy. I think the free. No let go off. I think that’s free. Will having a schedule a routine doing it. That’s for free will. Because naturally we want to be sedimentary. You know, the free will is. Hey, I want to go do this would be better at this next. I don’t know it’s kind of getting off topic there, but I think that’s truly what free will is like. Hey man, I gotta do my part and be productive, not just lazy. You. A lot of people play free. Will is obviously pay me what I want with. Absolutely. But but I think that’s what our human nature is. That and free will is, hey, I’m going to do something different and correct, you know.
Jim Holmes [00:13:23] Yeah.
Rey Treviño [00:13:24] I don’t know in a, in a.
Jim Holmes [00:13:25] Lot of getting, getting to where you want in this world is outworking the people around you.
Rey Treviño [00:13:29] Yeah.
Jim Holmes [00:13:29] You know, so changing your habits, it doesn’t mean you have to be at work. Doesn’t mean you have to work at your careers. 22 out of 24 hours I’ve been there. I’ve done that. It’s miserable. You know, home life requires a lot of work. Yes, marriages require a lot of work, you know? And if you’re lazy in any of those, they tend to fall apart. Right? So it’s you have to do everything with intent. Yeah. And purpose, you know, and there and of course, there should be a reward on the back end of that. Should feel better. Yeah. You’re happier. You know, it’s easier to wake up in the morning with a, with a tremendous amount of, of motivation and energy. Yeah. If you go to bed with that same level of motivation and happiness. Right. You know, it’s where we want to be, that’s why. I love working out. I love doing jujitsu. I love doing. The cross fits. I love doing any work out that I can get except for running. I hate running. So we’re not going to go down that road. My wife is the runner. Okay. Bless her heart, she did the Houston Marathon.
Rey Treviño [00:14:27] Did she?
Jim Holmes [00:14:28] It’s her first full marathon. And congrats to her for that cause. I got to watch.
Rey Treviño [00:14:33] Yeah. That was last weekend. That was a.
Jim Holmes [00:14:36] Couple weekends ago. It was, two weekends ago.
Rey Treviño [00:14:39] Okay.
Jim Holmes [00:14:40] She did great. Absolutely crushed it. But it’s it’s something we believe in in our house. That. You know. Why sit around when there’s things that could be done?
Rey Treviño [00:14:49] Yeah, yeah.
Jim Holmes [00:14:49] And it doesn’t have to be for you either.
Rey Treviño [00:14:52] No you don’t.
Jim Holmes [00:14:53] We we try to get our kids more involved into, you know, my daughter Ella, you know, what can you be doing right now rather than sitting here on your phone that could make your brother’s life better?
Rey Treviño [00:15:02] Yeah.
Jim Holmes [00:15:02] Brandt. My son, what could you be doing that can make our lives you know better rather than. Than gaming. Yeah. You know, I wish nothing wrong with gaming. It’s it certainly has its its pros and cons, but. You know, to bring that back. It’s how do we fully utilize the time that we’re given here? Because it’s there’s not much.
Rey Treviño [00:15:21] No, you know, there’s not much time. And you’re typically, in my opinion, you’re always doing family time by helping each other. That’s that’s a family time. Correct. And, you know, I’ve got a two year old and I’ve heard, you know, really disheartening, stats. And it’s like, I think by the time they’re like 10 or 12, you’ve already spent like 15% of the time with them by 18 and like 75%.
Jim Holmes [00:15:43] Scary.
Rey Treviño [00:15:43] That is. That’s eye opener.
Jim Holmes [00:15:45] Scary. I got mine are almost 15 and 12. So I’m I’m already there.
Rey Treviño [00:15:51] Yeah. But you do a lot with your kids.
Jim Holmes [00:15:53] We do. Yeah.
Rey Treviño [00:15:53] You know I’ll do a lot I mean you talk about that home home work balance and it is a balance. But it’s not that 5050. That’s that. I think another misconception is, you know, did you sit here if you’re just like, no, no, it’s a balance. Yeah.
Jim Holmes [00:16:09] It’s a balance. And it’s not the same for everybody. It’s not the same every day. Yeah. Like you don’t I can’t wake up and say I’m going to go work for eight hours and then that’s it. There’s days that need more than eight hours. There’s days that need less than eight hours. There’s. You know, there’s times when my kids leave more than eight hours. Yeah, it’s.
Rey Treviño [00:16:27] The young kids.
Jim Holmes [00:16:27] And that absolutely comes first.
Rey Treviño [00:16:30] Absolutely.
Jim Holmes [00:16:30] You know, I only, like you said, you get. You know by those stats have probably already spent 75% of my time with the kids that I’m going to get to spend. So now I really have to focus on making the most of the 25%. I have labs.
Rey Treviño [00:16:42] And well, I mean, but again, I mean, I, I just think what you do is awesome and, and the way you only continue to grow your business. So what’s, what’s one secret you can share on how you’ve only continue to develop a steady stream?
Jim Holmes [00:16:56] So I think that the biggest. I know we can harp on this all day. It’s it really. It really is. The people that you bring into the organization. It’s the culture that you drive and it’s you know, I think I mentioned it on previous podcast is taking the handcuffs off and trusting people to do it. Yeah. We have an incredible group of people. I mean, I couldn’t even go down. And, you know, we don’t have enough time to name everybody that’s involved in making this successful. You know what? Their home lives have to be successful as well. You know, if you’re not happy at home, you’re not to be happy at work. And if you’re not happy at work, and I can be happy at home. Yeah. So it’s it’s always this balance. And, you know, again, it’s surround yourself with people smarter than you. But I can’t harp on that enough. I love that. And we have that. We have that right now. We’re at the we’re at the top of our game from from technical development. We’re always looking to add, you know, we’re actively looking for the next people to add to the organization right now. We are we are in the hiring mode today.
Rey Treviño [00:17:58] Okay.
Jim Holmes [00:17:59] You know, a lot of those a lot of those interviews aren’t, you know, necessarily professionally, what are you going to bring to the table? Who are you?
Rey Treviño [00:18:07] Yeah, I was about to go there because that seems to be the, a trend right now or a statement you’re seeing which is higher, the person or the attitude and maybe not the resumé or something like a baby. But, you know, I thought, you know.
Jim Holmes [00:18:23] I think that’s right. I think, again, it’s a balancing act, right? It’s. If a person is not a good fit for the job technically, then it’s their probably not right. It’s even if they have the most incredible personality, they’re going to fit the culture perfect. They still have to be able to perform. So I think there’s a balance there between those two. But you also don’t want some top performer that’s a cancer within the organization, right. It’s like okay. So there’s always this balance of how can you bring in high performers that aren’t going to damage what you think?
Rey Treviño [00:18:52] Well, you know, let’s talk about that. Bring in it like let’s say, you know, some even say you bring them in, but you got somebody that definitely does not. But they’re listening to your top performers. How do you how would you deal with that question. But and they’ve been there a lot. You know a good.
Jim Holmes [00:19:07] Yeah. So if they’re if it’s a negative influence on the entire organization and it’s not just a little, little part of it where you can manage that. Right. There’s there’s always a, a certain amount that you can manage. There’s there’s no perfect employee. There’s no perfect partner in this. You know, everybody’s got their their moments. You know, so it depends if it if it becomes a problem with the organization I don’t think you can let those people go fast enough. Yeah. Even if they are high performing, there are other high performers out there. And there’s, there’s other high performers that may be a much better fit for the organization, you know, and it’s something we thought, you know, how long do we let this go? How long do we let this go until it becomes such a problem? That you’re you’re forced into it and it’s. You know, now this problem’s grown and other people have been exposed to this problem, and then you’re rebuilding, right? It’s not. Okay, so we got rid of the problem if you want to call it that. But then the recovery from that can take a long time.
Rey Treviño [00:20:03] Yes. It’s got culture. Yes, I can think about that. That I’m not.
Jim Holmes [00:20:08] So it’s.
Rey Treviño [00:20:10] A it’s.
Jim Holmes [00:20:11] A tough it’s a tough battle.
Rey Treviño [00:20:12] It is it is a tough.
Jim Holmes [00:20:13] And it’s a battle that none of us want to deal with, like having to make those decisions. Some of the worst thing is deals you get to deal with in our positions. It’s. You know, I’m sorry. You’re a high performer. We don’t want you here. Yeah, right. That’s a tough conversation to have.
Rey Treviño [00:20:29] It is. But but again, you know, I wanted to ask you because, like, what do you do? You know, again, y’all done nothing but continue to grow. And I was like, you know, with that kind of situation, you know, as of as this name continues this week, I say this week, in the next day or two, you know, is there anything here that you’re kind of excited about seeing that, that.
Jim Holmes [00:20:48] There’s a lot of activity? There’s a, you know, the nape where deals are made is is true this year. Yeah. The boosts are all have a lot of traffic. It’s it’s very busy. There’s a there’s a lot of deals to be had, a lot of investment looking to be placed. And there’s a lot of, you know, there’s a lot of money walking around, which is great to see. I don’t hear so far, I haven’t heard a whole lot about consolidation. As much as I’ve heard more about about investing and what we’re going to do. Yeah. So it’s it’s exciting, you know, that tells you that there’s a there’s a long future. And what we’re doing here.
Rey Treviño [00:21:24] Looking at this like, you know what you’re getting into 2024, right. Where do you see LFS going? You know, this year, what’s one of the big things you’re working on?
Jim Holmes [00:21:33] Well, so so technically, we’ve got we’ve got half a dozen new chemistries coming out that the world’s never seen before. These are brand new things that we’ve got a little ways to go on. Some of them. Yeah. It’s not easy to release a brand new chemistry. It takes a lot of work, even when you have a formula that you’re really proud of.
Rey Treviño [00:21:51] Yeah.
Jim Holmes [00:21:52] There’s a lot of regulation. There’s a lot of, you know, measuring environmental impact. And then and then you got to make sure, you know, the, the blind spots in the chemistry. Right, right. Where is it going to work or is it not going to work where the limitations, so that when you do go to market with it, you’re not you’re not kicked in the face by, you know, why didn’t you tell me this was going to happen? Yeah. Type of thing. So even when you have a product that’s ready to commercialize, you may be six months to a year from from actually putting it out to the market. So in that front, we’re, we’re extremely excited. We’ve got some new patents and new licenses and you know, the things coming out and then. This year we’re really looking to expand outside of the lower 48. Okay, so we are already outside the lower 48, but we’re going to have a concerted effort this year in really pushing revenue outside.
Rey Treviño [00:22:38] The local way. Outside. Are we talking north or south by Alaska
Jim Holmes [00:22:43] or east.
Rey Treviño [00:22:44] East.
Jim Holmes [00:22:46] So we already have an arrangement in the Middle East. So we we do business in the Middle East.
Rey Treviño [00:22:51] Yes.
Jim Holmes [00:22:52] We’re going to be expanding on that this year.
Rey Treviño [00:22:54] Okay.
Jim Holmes [00:22:55] You know, we for a five year old company, we’ve really we’ve really expanded faster than we ever thought possible. And of course, that comes down to to having the right value add products and the right message with it. And it’s time that, there’s other countries that need to hear about.
Rey Treviño [00:23:12] Yeah.
Jim Holmes [00:23:12] So, you know, and it gives us an opportunity to hire some other wonderful people that aren’t here in the US. And it’s it’s exciting.
Rey Treviño [00:23:20] It is. It really is. And it it brings us. So we call it, financial stability and other people that are in other countries.
Jim Holmes [00:23:30] Absolutely.
Rey Treviño [00:23:31] Well, Jim, for those out there that are looking, for chemicals that maybe some paraffin, I know you’re talking to accents like that. Well, you have to that he was, he jumped right in. Absolutely. He made that. Oh, how can people find you guys?
Jim Holmes [00:23:44] We have an incredible website, www.LFSchemistry.com. Of course, we’re on LinkedIn and and other social media. And then you can always reach out, you know, through any of the email addresses, or contacts that you can find on LinkedIn. Anybody would be happy to help. And we’re just looking for looking forward to 2024. Should be a great year.
Rey Treviño [00:24:03] It’s going to be an epic year. Do say so I absolutely agree. Well, Jim, again, I cannot thank you enough. We were, already starting out for a great 2024. I’m excited about to share with you guys. Thank you tremendously. crude truth And, just like Thank you so much.
Jim Holmes [00:24:21] I couldn’t tell you about. We’re we’re so happy to be a part of it. It’s it’s incredible. It’s been great getting to know you and.
Rey Treviño [00:24:26] Yes, I think that’s been the best part.
Jim Holmes [00:24:28] And. And then finally meeting your dad. Yeah. Man, that actually is driving the ship. Okay.
Rey Treviño [00:24:34] Oh, no, that’s that’s the Crude Truth
Jim Holmes [00:24:36] But. Absolutely.
Rey Treviño [00:24:39] So. But anyway, thank you so much. I cannot thank you. And thank you all out there. And, I’ll see you again on another episode of The Crude Truth.
Narrator [00:24:47] Again, thank you to our sponsors.LFS Chemistry, Nape Expo, Air Compressor Solutions, Exec Crue, Oil and Gas Workers Association, Pecos Country operating.
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