December 20

THE CRUDE TRUTH Ep 57 Dr. Ed Ireland, Natural Gas Expert and TCU Professor




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Highlights of the Podcast


THE CRUDE TRUTH Ep 57 Dr. Ed Ireland, Natural Gas Expert and TCU Professor

Video Transcription edited for grammar. We disavow any errors unless they make us look better or smarter.


Rey Treviño [00:00:00] The Barnett Shale, Natural gas and ERCOT. Where are they all headed? We talked to an expert to find out on this episode of The Crude Truth.

Rey Treviño [00:00:54] NAPE is a proud sponsor of the crude truth. Be sure to register for the NAPE Expo 2024 February 7th through the ninth at the George R Brown Convention Center in Houston, Texas. Hurry and register today. NAPE where deals happen.

Rey Treviño [00:01:42] Well, good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Whatever there. Whatever the time of the day it is, I cannot thank you again for tuning in for another episode of The Crude Truth today. I am just super excited. I almost feel the casual in a way, but just but also very proper. Today I have somebody on that has been a mentor of mine now for stuff for some time, somebody that I call and I ask questions about, Hey, what do you see going on here? What what’s going on with natural gas? What do you think Ercot’s going to do? The gentleman that I bring it on today, he has been the executive director of the Barnett Shale Energy Education Council. He’s the former director of the Energy Education of the Ralph Lowe Energy Management Program at TCU Energy Institute, and he’s currently a professor at Texas Christian University. And also he’s got an amazing substack. My guest today is Dr. Ed Ireland. Doctor, how are you?

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:02:46] I’m great. How are you?

Rey Treviño [00:02:48] Oh, my gosh. I’m just excited to have you here.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:02:51] Thank you.

Rey Treviño [00:02:52] Thank you so much for coming back in. And I say back in, you were a guest in the back and then the seats a while back here in episode, but finally got you here after two or three reschedules. But

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:03:05]  We made it.

Rey Treviño [00:03:06] We made it. We got here. We made the long trek to downtown for you. So. Well, thank you so much for coming. You know, for those out there that don’t know who you are, you know, I read off a little bit there about what you’re doing in what you’ve done in the past. And I’d like to kind of start there with your time in the Barnett shell.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:03:27] Okay. And how far back do you want to go?

Rey Treviño [00:03:30] Well, you were there from like part near the I’m going to say the Obse from the. Oh, from the beginning to the boom to the crash, so to speak, for the Barnett Shale. So, you know, let’s just talk about what you what you did primarily during that whole time.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:03:48] Well, a Sure, I’ll take one step back.

Rey Treviño [00:03:51] Okay.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:03:52] And tell you how I ended up in Fort Worth and with the Barnett Shale, I started off my career as a Ph.D. economist, not in energy, but I had always been interested in energy and had expected to be a career professor teaching economics. But after a couple of years of teaching economics at Clemson University in South Carolina and I’m from Texas, but I got displaced temporarily in South Carolina, which I enjoyed, but I was offered a job with a natural gas pipeline company in Houston, United Energy Resources. And, uh, I had always been interested in energy, had written about it and jumped at the chance to move to Houston, get back to Texas and be part of the energy industry. So that’s I started in the natural gas industry and really have been focused on it most of my professional career. And so then. It led me to. I spent a few years at United Gas Pipeline and then I decided to go off on my own and I started an energy consulting company. And that was very successful. And also. Put me in the right place at the right time. When natural gas prices were deregulated in 1978. And now a lot of people don’t know that natural gas prices in the United States were totally controlled by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission until 1978. And so that opened up the market. Before that, it was it was really a control market. Prices were set by first interstate pipelines had to go by the the prices that were set right. And there was no pipelines were not open for anyone else to transport gasoline. That changed starting with 1978. And I was in the consulting business. But I decided, you know what? I can make some money. Trent buying gas from producers, transporting it on interstate pipelines and selling it to end users lives, utilities. And so I started doing that. And that developed into being a really big business.

Rey Treviño [00:06:23] Yes.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:06:24] And so that that’s how I got into it. On the in on the natural gas side. And in doing that, I also started an oil and gas exploration drilling and exploration company.

Rey Treviño [00:06:35] Yes.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:06:35] And so I kind of got into all aspects of of energy. So that’s my my brief history

Rey Treviño [00:06:43] The and that’s you’re being very brief with it. But what I’m enjoying about you and sharing today is that you have a a just a plethora of experience in the oil and gas industry. And then the fact that you were, you know, you have a Ph.D. in economics or economist that just adds to that portfolio for someone that sits here and looks at what’s going on, how the natural gas prices affect what’s going on with the dollar, affect what’s going on with the economy. So your pedigree, I guess, would be I’ll use that word that has led you then to basically be part of that. Barnett Shell boom really has you know, really was what what a heck of a launching pad for you at that time,

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:07:31] Well, it was the I had just we had my wife and I had decided we were going to move back to Texas. We actually I had retired early, too early and moved to Florida. And we were wanting to get back to Texas and wanted to move to Fort Worth.

Rey Treviño [00:07:52] Yeah,.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:07:53] Because one of my boys went to TCU. Right? And we loved Fort Worth and wanted to live here. So we did move back in right at that time. As I started meeting people here, that’s when the Barnett Shale was just starting to develop. That was 26. Yes. And drilling had been going on ten years prior to that, but the boom was just starting to get underway in 2006. So I met the right people who were starting the Barnett Shale, what became the Barnett Shale Energy Education Council. And the whole point behind that was it was urban drilling. I mean, people were drilling wells in parking lots of malls. And even though. A lot of people in Fort Worth are from Texas and Native Texans. They didn’t necessarily ever live next door to drilling rigs.

Rey Treviño [00:08:50] Correct.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:08:51] And so this urban drilling was a whole new thing and people had a lot of questions. So the mayor of Fort Worth had suggested to the companies that were drilling in Fort Worth that they needed to have some kind of a public relations group that could go out and explain to people what’s going on and how the business is conducted and the safety record of it and so on. And so that was hired to do that. And it it was a great ride for about ten years.

Rey Treviño [00:09:24] Oh, yeah, that was a big ride. I was assume for that 10 years.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:09:27] Was very big because it was new urban drilling and people didn’t understand it. They had a lot of questions. And this was all prior to by the way, the whole idea of natural gas is bad and carbon in the atmosphere and all of that early on. The main questions I got were, when do I get my check? You know, there’s I haven’t got a check yet and I signed a lease in around 2010 that changed now and it became very environmentally focused with the emphasis on CO2 emissions and and all of that. So it was an interesting time, to say the least.

Rey Treviño [00:10:12] Well, you know, you mentioned there that, first of all, I didn’t know that you moved to Florida for a little while.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:10:16] And yeah, we ran away to Florida for ten years.

Rey Treviño [00:10:19] Oh, man, that’s a nice place. It is nice

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:10:22] Lived in down in South Florida, the Naples area.

Rey Treviño [00:10:26] Turned. background terrible. Life turned terrible. Thank you. So you get through it. But you again, you know, you said that ten years ago, you were right there, boom, when the boom started. And then you talk about the environmental leg of it didn’t kick off until 2010, 2011. You know, the thing that sticks out physically in my mind is when the environmental stuff is when they started putting up those high, what, 20 or 30 foot walls around where they were drilling. And then of course, now they have all these other low emissions things in place where they’re still producing today. I know, because, you know, there’s stuff in my neighborhood that that was drilled back in 2000, the early 2000, mid 2000. And so when did you get started at TCU? I didn’t know. Again, the same thing before. Before I let you answer, I did not know that your son went there first. Before you went There.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:11:20]  Yes.

Rey Treviño [00:11:20] Oh, I didn’t know that.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:11:21] Yeah, he graduated from there. So I had one graduate from TCU, one from U.T. in Austin.

Rey Treviño [00:11:26] Oh, wow. That’s going to be fun.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:11:28]  Yeah, I got to ask both places, but it was really almost immediately I met people at TCU and it they were starting wanted to start an energy institute. Yes. So I was immediately part of that. I was on the first board of directors of the TCU Energy Institute and that put me on campus talking to people, started getting invited to speak to classes and was soon invited to to come on board and teach. So I did.

Rey Treviño [00:11:59] And now you’ve been there for what.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:12:01] Since 2007 on the campus? I started teaching full time in 2015. I did that for seven years and then went back to part time. So I spend more time writing on Substack.

Rey Treviño [00:12:16] Well, you know what? A busy schedule because you didn’t end up you didn’t finish up at the with the Council, the Barnet Council till after 15. So you were staying super busy there,

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:12:29]  Right. I was doing both, yeah. Until 27 spring to wind down in 2015. The Barnett Shale Energy education as it was winding down, officially disbanded in 2017.

Rey Treviño [00:12:41] Okay. Okay. But no, now you, you know, you still teach a little bit because again, I highlight in the beginning that that that you were part of the the inception of the energy. It’s now like a full blown thing. What is this, Ralph Lowe Energy Institute. But at that time, it was the Ralph Lowe energy management. So it was kind of just more just some classes that would help gear and a certificate at that time.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:13:08] That’s right. It started off as a certificate program because it it it takes years to start up a new academic program, say, to be a master’s degree. So it started as as a certificate. And that got it started. And then it became part of the business school and part of the energy MBA program.

Rey Treviño [00:13:30] Yes. And right now, you got people like Dr. BLITZER over there. And Dr. Tom Singh was a was also on the show here earlier in Runner.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:13:39] And he got some great people there.

Rey Treviño [00:13:40] They really do. And, you know and what sets you aside from and I’ll you Dr. Tom also that you all have that world experience like you all are not just you know get out of college and start teaching about oil and gas energy or things like that. And which now leads me to, you know, your substack and its ed Ireland dot substack dot com. And you have really not only gained an awesome following on that, but you’re the information that you’re talking about and the detail in the examples. You know, they say facts were friendly and that’s what you’re providing on a daily basis on your substack. So I want to kind of touch on that just for a minute there and what you’ve been able to do in highlighting and kind of talk about that.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:14:28] Sure. Well, I, I had to make a transition, of course, as I say, I grew up, so to speak, as an academic writer. That’s when I started publishing about energy was early on, and that was for academic journals. That’s a whole different thing.

Rey Treviño [00:14:46] Yes.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:14:46] And so I had to retrain myself to write. But that had started during the Barnett Shale days when I was writing a lot of informative articles and editorials for local newspapers. That was really part of my job and to again explain what was going on in the Barnett Shale. So that helped me with the transition. And then Substack really got me focused on writing informative articles that anyone can read and benefit from it. And it’s been a great experience. I mean, I’ve got some really good readers. They make good comments and, you know, they, they, they keep you sharp and, and it’s great. I just didn’t really enjoy it.

Rey Treviño [00:15:33] Well, you know, one thing you talk about on Substack is the natural gas. So, you know, let’s talk about that. We’re still way below $3 an MCF right now. Natural gas. We have a war now on natural gas. And I use the word war from this current administration, trying to get rid of, you know, the gas burning stoves or the gas burning heaters, You know, right now with natural gas being less than $3 in MCF and this war on it, why, you know, what a and then what an inexpensive form of energy to provide power and yet we have people. People reading on it right now, you know. What do you see in about that?

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:16:14] Well. My contention is that the powers that be, so to speak, are both laser focused on stopping natural gas because it’s so good,.

Rey Treviño [00:16:29] Right?

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:16:29] It’s such a perfect fuel. Yeah, it is. You know, it’s it’s primarily methane and on and it’s very clear it’s the cleanest burning fossil fuel. And so it’s just in many ways, the perfect fuel. You know, the the the rockets that NASA and then Elon Musk have sent into space run on. Basically natural gas, but hydrogen, which is natural gas with just the one carbon molecule stripped out.

Rey Treviño [00:17:09] Yeah.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:17:09] So it it’s very clean, clean burning. It’s abundant in in the United States. You know, we’re blessed with all the shale resources, really the largest in the world. And that’s how the U.S. became the largest producer of natural gas in the world. And now crude oil, all of that was from shales.

Rey Treviño [00:17:31] Yes.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:17:32] And we have an abundance of. So natural gas is abundant and it’s cheap and it’s clean burning. Yeah. And that just drives the the entire fossil fuel group of people crazy. And the way they have tried or have been successful in many ways, dealing with it is to demonize natural gas and to pass laws against it.  And so building natural gas pipelines, for example, in the United States, you know, has been a very difficult task because there are groups whose full time job is to stop pipelines, and they have done it. And in many cases, we still have pipelines and they do get built. But it’s a long process. And so it’s harmed a lot of parts of the country. For example, up in the northeast, like north of New York State, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Vermont, they have limited pipeline capacity, natural gas pipeline capacity. So when things get really cold in the winter and they need to keep the electricity on to keep people warm, they burn fuel oil.

Rey Treviño [00:18:48] Okay.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:18:49] In coal.

Rey Treviño [00:18:50] Yes.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:18:51] So the end result of these pipelines being constrained is to actually increase the carbon footprint in the United States, the electric utilities in some parts of the country. So. Now I’m getting off being a professor here, but.

Rey Treviño [00:19:06] Oh, please do.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:19:06] That is what happened. So. But back to your original question about natural gas. It’s abundant and clean and readily available. And so. Laws have been passed forbidding its use, which is just crazy. You say you can’t have a gas stove, You can’t have a gas furnace. No, you can’t have a gas water heater. That’s where we are. All of those laws aren’t in place. But they’re coming.

Rey Treviño [00:19:35] They’re coming in. What? And like you just said, it’s. So this is a clean burning fuel, and in fact, it burns so efficiently. It’s one of the top three efficient burners. And what I mean by that, for those out there that don’t know, when you when you produce an energy source, there’s some that is that you can’t use. Right. And I think what nuclear is, number one, and then they’re either number two or number three in that like 50 or 60% of that natural gas is physically used for energy. Is that Correct?

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:20:07] That’s right. And when it’s used in in the in the gaseous form, let’s say, goes into your house to run your cell over your water heater, that’s the highest energy efficient efficiency you can get when you burn something like natural gas or go to make electricity and then transmit that electricity to as you’ve lost 50% of the energy. Right. So it’s much more energy efficient and cleaner to use natural gas directly.

Rey Treviño [00:20:37] As a gas.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:20:38] As electricity.

Rey Treviño [00:20:39] Okay.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:20:39] But that’s, you know, electrify everything is the current movement.

Rey Treviño [00:20:43] So we’ll then use more natural gas to produce electricity than we would just burn it because, you know, natural gas can be in a solid liquid or gas. And the most efficient way to do it is actually use it in a gas state.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:20:57] Right.

Rey Treviño [00:20:58] What it us?

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:21:00] Oh, it’s great. It’s crazy and it’s crazy.

Rey Treviño [00:21:02] You know, this is not all natural gas. What I saw and I can’t confirm or deny this post, but I saw a post the other day of a natural gas or a diesel generator providing the energy electricity for a electric vehicle plug in. And it said that that natural gas or that that diesel generator burns 12 gallons of diesel an hour. It takes 3 hours to get a full charge on that electric vehicle that will go 200 miles. So technically, it was 36 gallons of diesel for that thing to go 200 miles. I don’t see the efficiency there at all, Doctor.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:21:41] You know, it’s it’s not you know, and there are a lot of wrong directions going on right now in energy policies. We’ll see.

Rey Treviño [00:21:51] I want to shoot a curveball at you real quick. As an operator and, you know, as an MP company for us, you know, right now, producing natural gas is nothing more than just a byproduct, you know, And we’re still going after well, here we are over $90 at the day that we record this episode. And so, you know, hey, if I get natural gas out of the well, that’s great and I’ll sell it downstream. But at $2 less than $3 in FCF for us to go physically drill for natural gas right now is just not a a great thing to do, you know, financially. What dollar amount would you think that hey would be a good number to where the the the economy can continue to thrive the American people can continue to thrive and that EMP companies like myself could make a make a decent dollar natural gas

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:22:42] For, what price of natural gas?

Rey Treviño [00:22:43] Yeah.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:22:43] No, probably $5. I mean, I’ll just just toss out a round number. But it what’s happened right now at a natural gas price is again, there’s so much natural gas in the shales that it is very abundant and a lot of the natural gas supply we have coming out in the United States is coming from the Permian Basin. As you know, is primarily drilled for crude oil.

Rey Treviño [00:23:11] Yes,.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:23:11] But the associated gas comes up with the oil. Effectively, that means that the cost of producing that natural gas is zero.

Rey Treviño [00:23:20] Well, yeah,.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:23:21] It was free. You didn’t drill for it.

Rey Treviño [00:23:23] That’s drill.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:23:23] For crude oil. And you got some natural gas for free. And so the result of that. Associated gas price. Being free means the producers of oil, as you’re talking about that are would just need to get rid of it.  And so that means whatever it takes, they’ll get rid of it. And that’s what keeps the lid on natural gas Prices.

Rey Treviño [00:23:49] You know. Well, you talk about that, and I want to kind of go back to the northeast and they’re crazy rules where they burn oil or they burn oil to stay to to keep the houses hot, which is a larger carbon footprint. And here we have a product that’s basically just coming out of the ground where we it’s an answer every of product right now, you know, that’s almost the way gasoline was back in the day. You know, they were making kerosene and gasoline was the cheap byproduct that came. So that being said, the combustible engine in partnership with gasoline just changed the last hundred years. And we have built an entire grid system on that combustible engine and that inexpensive fuel source. You know, people talk about an energy transition, Dr. Ireland, natural gas would you would think just, you know, if you want to repeat history in a way, natural gas would be the best thing to do to make a true energy transition for the next hundred years, what.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:24:48] It would be. And in fact, natural gas is the fuel that used in electricity generation that is keeping all the grids operating. In fact, I just published an article on Subsea.

Rey Treviño [00:25:03] Good. Let’s go.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:25:04] That went through that analysis and showed if you go through every grid, electricity grid in the United States from the all through the East Coast, the West Coast, and in the mid part of the United States, it’s been natural gas that has kept the system working. Guess the electricity on because there’s an inconvenient truth here about wind and solar is that wind and solar that’s come on like gangbusters in recent years is very destabilizing to the electricity grids. Why the wind doesn’t always blow in the sun doesn’t always shine. And so when the when the sun is shining, for example, solar is great, it produces a lot of electricity, but the sun goes down and then it produces none. And for wind, it’s the same. There are many days in Texas when wind is producing 30% or more of the electricity being generated in the state. There are days when it’s almost zero because the wind is blowing. And that’s one thing that happened to this last summer and why ERCOT, our grid system, our grid operator. The ERCOT was having a lot of trouble when we had those really hot days when it was under and 810.

Rey Treviño [00:26:32] Yes,.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:26:32] Because on those days the wind stops blowing. And so wind was dropping off to practically nothing. That lift, you know, we have nuclear power in in Texas, but not a lot of it. You only had two in the state. Each one has two reactors. That’s all we have. And then we have a few coal mines or coal fired electric generation that’s left. But after that, it’s natural gas. And most days, natural gas is generating somewhere between 40 and 80% of the electricity being generated in the state because wind and solar take first priority. So if the wind’s blowing. Wind and solar. If the sun’s out, we’ll. We’ll have first place in, so to speak. The natural gas brings up the rear.

Rey Treviño [00:27:30] Yeah.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:27:31] Balances it out, makes it work. And if. If the when the sun goes down, natural gas comes up and fills in the gap. When the wind slows down, natural gas comes up and fills in the gap. That’s true of all electric grids in the United States. And if we didn’t have that natural gas, we would be in a world of hurt but would have many of our power grids in trouble.

Rey Treviño [00:27:55] Well. Well, I’m glad that you brought up ERCOT, and that is the the Electric Reliability Council of Texas. So we’ll bring it back home here to the great state of Texas. And you know that you have been doing a lot on your Ed Ireland dot substack dot com talking about ERCOT and the reliability. And you know during our little free meeting, you were like, well, some people are, you know, kind of like, well, what about the reliability here? I’m saying, you know, people are saying, well, we almost lost power today. We almost lost like we almost did. But we have it in that, you know, has ERCOT actually learned its lesson from last year and the previous year when we were doing those brownouts or blackouts all throughout the state of Texas are, you know.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:28:38] Yeah, I think Ercot’s learned a lot. I think they learned that they had overestimated the capability of wind and solar and that it’s, I think, more highly variable than they had expected in their models. And so they’ve adjusted for that and. A lot of people talk about batteries, battery storage, and that’s coming up in Texas. And I mean, it’s increasing.

Rey Treviño [00:29:08] Yes,.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:29:09] We have quite a bit of battery storage. And of course, all of these generating mechanisms, wind, solar, natural gas batteries, all of that in Texas is part of the free market. These are companies that are generating electricity with these sources. So ERCOT doesn’t put in batteries. Private companies put in batteries. Private companies build natural gas generation, etc.. And so it’s an open market situation. It’s it’s it’s a beautiful thing for an economist to watch.

Rey Treviño [00:29:40] Yeah.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:29:41] Actually work. It’s a free market in and electricity generation. And I think Ercot’s learned a lot. And they’ve developed new tools, new ways of dispatching electricity through different types of generation by getting some very short term pricing mechanisms in place. So that say in it’s really natural gas mainly that can come online in minutes. So if ERCOT says we we have a you know, wind has dropped, what are we going to do? And we need more generation. Natural gas has some tools. They can use certain types of generators that can come online within minutes and provide the the stabilizing electricity that’s needed to keep the grid operating.

Rey Treviño [00:30:36] I just hope, you know, that that that they have, like you said, because I agree, I do think that they have learned their lessons. And, you know, sometimes you’ll do posts on LinkedIn that show, hey, you’ve got natural gas at 60% while you see wind and solar at less than 10%. And then the nuclear, because we do have some nuclear here, and that’s usually pretty small also. But I mean, natural gas is really kind of a way for the future. And now, as we’re running out of time here, I do want to kind of transition real quick and I want to throw out a quick one more curveball question for you. Okay. And I want to get you I want you to give me the crude truth.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:31:13] You bet.

Rey Treviño [00:31:15] We hit $100 oil. How long do you think we in? $100 oil.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:31:23] $100 has been per barrel has been the. Dividing line for quite a few decades between doable and problematic for the economy. So over $100 has typically means the economy starts to slow down because. The price of energy determines determines the price of everything. Everything is either made out of oil and gas, transported by oil and gas stored in refrigeration or or whatever by oil and gas. So it determines the price of everything. So when oil prices had typically gotten over $100 a barrel, that means inflation starts to heat up. All prices start going up. People’s $5 a gallon gasoline has been another one of those sort of magic marks. When it gets over, it gets close to five and over five. People are in a world of hurt. They can’t afford to drive to work, etc.. So the short answer to your question is $100 a barrel has kind of been it. A lot of producers over time, say in the recent decade have said, you know, if you’re asking what’s the perfect price of oil, it’s a, you know, about $80, $70 because we can make money and it doesn’t drag the economy down. And so I think that’s that has been true for years and still is. So if it stays over a hundred, things start to slow down in the economy.

Rey Treviño [00:32:56] Well, and then one other thing I do want to bring up that a few years ago, when you and I first got to meet, you were doing a presentation and you talk about the happy median right now is 75 $80 oil. And I agree that you did this wonderful presentation and I think you need to do it again. I really do. But maybe maybe that’s something we could talk about. But the whole point to that was when you took in inflation, the the value of a dollar and just the overall economy over the last hundred years, the average price of oil has always been just about $41 a barrel. That’s right. And that is the perfect break even if you ask me, as a as  EMP Company, if I can do that out today, definitely. I’m not doing it today, but that’s a heck of a great goal to do. So I just wanted to kind of highlight that also that you’ve done some great presentations in the past and that one again, the first time I met you and it’s really stuck out. So thank you very much.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:33:55] Well, good. Yeah, that, yeah, that developed a historical graph about that. If you adjust for inflation and everything else, it’s somewhere around 40 to $45 is always been kind of a sweet spot. That’s where producers can make money, but they’d like to make more. But, you know, they can be in business. But you get up to 80 or 100, then it turns around the other way in the economy starts

Rey Treviño [00:34:22] Well, Dr.. On running out of time. So for those out there that have not connected with you, how can they reach out, you know, whether it’s a speaking engagement or something to ask you questions about what’s going on with natural gas or, you know, how can people reach out to you today?

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:34:37] Well, on Substack, you can always reach me there. You sign up. But my publication has a free option so you can read it, sign up for free and send me email there. Or just my TCU dot Ireland @ TCU dot edu will will get me the email so.

Rey Treviño [00:34:59]  In the class that you’re teaching right now is energy and entrepreneurship.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:35:03] That’s right.

Rey Treviño [00:35:04] Yes.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:35:04] Yeah, it’s a great course. It’s a junior senior level course for undergraduates and it is the whole point of it is to explore various forms of energy and for them as a class final project to write a business plan for a startup energy company, whatever that might be, can be oil and gas, wind and solar, carbon capture, you name it.

Rey Treviño [00:35:30] Well, if any of them go into the energy MBA there, TCU, they could almost use that as a blueprint for their field study,.

Dr. Ed Ireland [00:35:37] For sure.

Rey Treviño [00:35:37] Just saying, well, for those out there, again, please check out Dr. Ireland Substack It’s Ed Ireland dot Substack dot com Dr. Ireland , thank you so much for coming in today. And just just, just again, thanks so much. Thank you. And we’ll see you here on another episode of The Crude Truth


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Dr. Ed Ireland, Natural Gas Expert and TCU Professor, Rey Trevino, The Crude Truth

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