The Crude Truth Ep. 111 George P. Bush and Karr Ingham

Video Transcription edited for grammar. We disavow any errors unless they make us look better or smarter.

Rey Treviño [00:00:00] As we continue into this year and the Trump election is already over, we know that he is already making changes for the economy and more importantly, in the oil and gas industry. Today we bring on two amazing and excellent professionals in this space to talk about where we’re going in 2025. On this episode of The Crude Truth.

Narrator [00:00:20] In 1901, at Spindle Top Hill near Beaumont, the future of Texas changed dramatically as like a fountain of fortune. Thousands of barrels of oil burst from the earth towards the sky. Soon Detroit would be cranking out Model TS by the millions. And America was on the move thanks to the black gold being produced in Texas. Now, more than a century later, the vehicles are different, but nothing else has truly changed. Sure, there may be many other alternative energy sources like wind and solar and electric. But let’s be honest, America depends on oil and entrepreneurs. And if the USA is truly going to be independent, it has to know the crude truth.

Narrator [00:01:03] This episode is brought to you by LFS Chemistry. We are committed to being good stewards of the environment. We are providing the tools so you can be to Nape Expo where deals happen. Air compressor solutions. When everything is on the line, Air Compressor Solutions is the dependable choice to keep commercial business powered up. Sandstone Group. Exec Crue. Elevate your network. Elevate Your Knowledge. Texas Star Alliance. Pecos Country Operating Fueling Our Future.

Rey Treviño [00:01:39] Well, hello again and thank you, as always for tuning in to another episode of The Crude Truth. I’m just going to dive into today’s episode. As we know, President Trump will be president again on January 20th of 2025, and the oil and gas industry and energy industry as a whole is already just growing and being more prosperous than it was three days ago and three weeks ago at the time of election. Today I brought on two amazing returning guests, and I just want to say thank you to these guys because it’s really an honor to have both of y’all on as returning guests, as always. And that’s why I want to jump in, because it’s just so exciting today. George Bush, former land commissioner of this great state of Texas, and Carr Ingram, the president of the Texas Alliance of Energy Producers. Gentlemen, how are you all doing?

George P. Bush [00:02:27] Doing great.

Karr Ingham [00:02:29] Doing Great here as well.

Rey Treviño [00:02:30] My gosh. Well, I just want to literally dive in today, guys, because President Trump is going to be president again as a whole. I know this. West Texas was Super Bowl Sunday, the day after election. Super happy that he won. As we continue now on, we’re seeing changes already changes in the market. And I wanted to kind of just dive into that today. And George, we’ll start with you. What are your thoughts, initial thoughts on the November 4th?

George P. Bush [00:02:58] Well, it’s a bright new day for anybody in the energy industry. I think people are super excited about the new leadership, the team that President Trump is putting together in fast order. A lot has been made about the first time around that Trump got elected, that he really didn’t have kind of the blueprint already established and putting together that staff to be successful, though he eventually had a great first term. But this time around, he’s really hitting the ground running. I was just in Washington DC. I’ve been in DC twice talking with folks in the transition. And it’s pretty clear that he is not only thinking about the secretary nominations to lead these important agencies, but in the second, third order of leadership that’s essential to build out the right leadership and to pursue his agenda. So whether you’re talking Department of Energy, Ferc, the Newark, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission as well, he’s building out a very robust strategy as it relates to making our country not only a leader regionally, but globally. And we can do it, I think, with our patriotic, patriotic, get it done attitude that that he has on his team. We’re going to get there.

Rey Treviño [00:04:08] Nice, and Karr, What are your thoughts, especially with you assisting in so many things here in the great state of Texas with the Texas Alliance of Energy producer. What are you hearing from other operators?

Karr Ingham [00:04:19] Well, as we talked earlier, there are some realism that had to be dealt with. I mean, things that were done in the last administration. It’ll take a little while, if it’s possible at all, to completely unwind some of those and undo some of the damage that’s been done. We’ll see where markets take us because that could always be challenging. But I think it matters. It matters a lot. It’s extremely consequential that this administration does not come in on day one, as the last one did, with a foundational content for petroleum energy, broadly speaking, and the US domestic oil and gas industry specifically. And it was really apparent with the last administration. I mean, they started this and he started this President Biden on day one into signing all manner of executive orders that are really harmful, not just to the oil and gas industry domestically and in Texas, but to consumers, the availability of energy that we all need and demand and this thing abundant, affordable, reliable energy. We have been blessed with this in the past. We we continue to be, no doubt about it. But it’s more difficult and more costly. And again, operating in an environment where your own government seems to hate everything you do, it matters that that has now gone by the wayside. And there’s a lot of work to do. But as George said, I mean, he and all of us have now hit the ground running. So somebody asked me if I thought our members and the oil and gas guys I was talking to were more optimistic. And I think exuberant was a better word. You know, in the 2 or 3 days following the election, just because that target that was on your back is all of a sudden gone. And right again, this is really meaningful and just change the mindset in the industry, I think.

Rey Treviño [00:06:07] And you know, like I said, the target on the back and, you know, I know I think with both the oil on the show horse, like when President Biden came in, he put that target to kill all these jobs. And so people I think in the industry, men and women, have been worried for the last four years. And I think that exuberant is really where it’s at. It’s like, okay, we’re at least safe. And now I’m kind of like, now people are like, okay, we’re safe. But what’s actually going to happen to the markets? Like, you know, do we think that with President Trump coming in or are we going to see the price of oil go up? Is it probably going to stay the same? That’s what I think. But are we going to see a good dip in the price as we continue to maybe be the leading producer in the world? I don’t know. Do you think we could? Do you think we’ll continue to go? Do you think we’ll continue to be the leading producer, George?

George P. Bush [00:06:51] Yeah. I mean, we’re we’re at a little over 14 million barrels of production on a daily basis. And so we’re approaching, if not already exceeding Saudi production. And if I come back to kind of our region of Canada and Mexico is if we can figure out a regional plan, we can in our lifetime become our own OPEC, essentially. I think Karr is absolutely right that, you know, with the initial Biden executive orders going back to that first day, he had to think over 120 executive orders, and most of it was centered on energy. And I remember the Keystone pipeline. You touched on that in terms of I think it was like 20,000 jobs that were immediately lost evaporated in thin air. So this means a lot for, you know, not only well-paying jobs, but careers that can be built not only in Texas but throughout the country, which is what is super exciting and to rebalance the the global strategy from a national security perspective with respect to our own oil and gas production and the Ferc being able to reverse the Biden decision to freeze all LNG export terminal developments along the Texas Gulf Coast, one of which happens to be in Brownsville Port of Brownsville, the next decade facility which had contracts to to distribute natural gas to a lot of our friends in Europe and also Asia. And so you think about kind of the ongoing struggles in Ukraine, potentially the Taiwanese Strait. You know, we need, as Cartes said, an abundant and readily distributable, you know, supply of energy that Texas can be at the forefront just because we’re blessed with not only the natural resource but the infrastructure to do it. So. So, yeah, I think it’s highly foreseeable we do it. But as Karr probably would also say, this is about the markets and let’s let the markets go. You know, there has been jokes in the oil patch that sometimes Democrats are better for oil prices because they want to keep it in the ground and that that could play out. And as conservatives, I mean, we want a market oriented strategy and to remove the regulation and the red tape to actually develop. So I’ll just close by saying that at the Globe we undertook a lot of lawsuits. You may remember it’s about the administration, the Biden administration, where they were leveraging all kinds of laws and regs to shut down production in the state of Texas and and let the market determine what the lowest cost of production is going to be and let the wildcatters determine where it is and how it can get it to market.

Rey Treviño [00:09:24] Well, I want to definitely you know, we were talking about the markets before we jumped on the episode here. So I do want to give you a chance to talk about that Karr, but also with the Texas alliance. You guys help fight for everything that the operators do, offshore drilling. You know, do we see that being lifted, those regulations, to hopefully get some more permits done to start drilling out there as well?

Karr Ingham [00:09:47] I think so. I mean, onshore and offshore is just been a battle. It seems like there’s a new way to attack the permitting process, just to attack the way of doing business. I mean, we had, you know, when we started this explosion of onshore domestic production really posed Great recession leading up to an industry downturn, nasty 1 in 2015 and 2016. And then new production records being set between then and Covid. This really, you know, the the onshore domestic shale stuff was the shiny bloom on the rose. It still is. But but offshore has made a real renaissance and kind of coming back and taking a greater share of US domestic total production. But again, it seems like these guys are just trying to find ways to keep anybody from producing anything anywhere. So one regulation after another having to do with whales and you name it. I mean, stuff that only applies, by the way, to oil and gas, not shipping, not other offshore industries, only oil and gas platforms. And so it’s time for that nonsense to stop. Time for that to go. I think there’s little doubt about the fact that we will maintain our position as the world’s largest single country producer of crude oil. That even happened. And they will say this. You know, the Biden guys will say, listen, we set new records while we were in office. What are you complaining about? Well, I’ll tell you what we’re complaining about. Everybody knows what we’re complaining about. This will get better. We’ll see where markets take us. But we are going to continue to be the largest single country producer of crude oil on the planet for a long time to come.

Rey Treviño [00:11:28] You know, I want to dive into the administration. I don’t know the man personally, but President Trump, two people that he’s nominated to his cabinet. The first one is. Doug Berman.

George P. Bush [00:11:40] Burgum.

Rey Treviño [00:11:41] Yeah, for the interior, if I’m correct, first, and then Chris Wright of Colorado, who’s the CEO at Liberty Energy. I know my good friend Stuart Turley and David Blackmon have had a chance to meet Chris. I have not, but that pic seems like it was a really good pick. And I remember when they picked Rick Perry when he picked him four years ago, I was like, That’s probably the best pick. Y At least it was the guy from Texas in the energy space. But this is even more honed in now. And so what are your guys thoughts on Chris Wright. And even Doug going into the interior?

George P. Bush [00:12:16] Well, it’s hard to find to better picks, in my opinion, just because I think, Chris, what’s interesting about him is that he’s bringing a purely private sector background into a government agency. And as you saw with Elon Musk and Vivek running the so-called Dodge Commission in D.C., you know, there’s more of an entrepreneurial mindset in this cabinet that he’s forming, which I’m personally I’m excited about. Not only does he have the oil and gas experience, but he’s also on the board of Okhla, which is a publicly held small modular reactor company. So he has nuclear expertise as well, which is a big part of the secretary of Energy’s portfolio. And so when you think about then like just in Ercot here in Texas, the need for us to grow from a capacity of north of 78GW per hour to 130 by ercot’s own estimate, by the end of this decade, because of our phenomenal growth and the needs for AI and data centers to keep our economy going, you know, we we really need to reconsider at a policy level nuclear as part of the energy addition I call it. I’m tired of the word energy transition. I want to throw it out right here.

Karr Ingham [00:13:26] So I’m here for I’m never hear that word again that it’s all right with me.

George P. Bush [00:13:30] But so we can agree. Let’s call it energy addition because we need we need more abundant and cheap sources of supply. And so you got Chris Wight who’s going to be running that that agency? Then you have Doug Burgum, who’s an executive. He’s also a successful businessman, sold a data company to Microsoft, made an absolute fortune and then ran an oil and gas producing state, which is the lifeblood of their economy in North Dakota. So, you know, what I love about the interior is that basically that’s the equivalent of the general land office at the federal level where you’re running the states or the nation’s surface rights. It’s mineral rights. So anything for offshore development in Alaska to the Gulf of Mexico is within his purview. And so, you know, not only that, but there’s an unofficial council which is going to coordinate all of the federal agencies that deal with energy issues with Doug as the chairman of that I should call him governor, not Doug, not that I’m not that close to him. But so all to say that these are two really good picks, I think they’re going to work closely with the White House in terms of. So keep an eye out on his initial executive orders that I think are going to reverse almost word for word what Biden tried to accomplish during his four years.

Rey Treviño [00:14:43] Wow Karr, you do that one?

Karr Ingham [00:14:45] Yeah, I do know, Chris. I do know Chris a little bit. The alliance, if you don’t know this, we’re always way ahead of the game. Chris spoke to our annual meeting in Fort Worth two years ago. So I’ve met him and visited with him some then. I’ve seen him speak 2 or 3 times since then, and he and I have also served for the last year or two on the board together of the Domestic Energy Producers Alliance. And so he’ll now be resigning these boards and such. But I’ve met him a time or two. And the interesting and unique thing about him, he is most certainly a doer. I mean, he’s he’s all all due respect to. He’ll know what I mean by this. He’s he’s not purely a political animal who’s never produced a thing in his life. He is an extraordinary businessman. He founded this company. I think they’re the second largest broker service company in the country now. He is extraordinary. He is a doer. He is a producer. In addition to this, though, and what makes him unique is that he’s also a thinker and he’s a big picture thinker and he’s an energy thinker and he understands what he just said. And that is this expansion is absolutely necessary because we’ve got a growing world in terms of population. We’ve got a growing world in terms of the development, which is always more demanding of energy and leaving people behind, either in the US and certainly beyond the borders of the US is not just wrongheaded, it’s bordering on immoral. Why should we deny others around the world the benefits of petroleum energy that are unique really to petroleum energy While we grow and expand to other forms of energy? The availability of energy is what makes this planet work, and it’s what raises people out of poverty, raises their standard of living, gives them something to get up and be optimistic about every day. And denying people this is, again, bordering on criminal. I mean, it just shouldn’t be. He understands all of this. If you’ve never heard a presentation of his where he talks about energy and its production, even within the context of climate change, they were the first company to put out an ESG report that said, yeah, we’ll pay attention to emissions and sustainability and all of these other terms. But you know what we really do? We produce things that make people’s lives better. And here’s how that happens. And he sort of turn this. He was the guy that began to turn this whole notion of ESG on its head. And and he’s he’s to be commended for this. I love this pick because he’s a doer. A thinker, understands the big picture about energy.

Rey Treviño [00:17:32] Well, I’m excited. Hopefully, I could get him on at some point. I think that would be a fun one. You were talking about that rooftop up there to give the Energy Department, get him out in for something. George, I got to ask you. Okay. You publicly supported Donald Trump in 2016. You you supported him in 2020. What are your thoughts and on what you’re excited to see him do over the next four years? But also, I try to relate to you sometimes, but we’re both under 50 and this administration’s getting young.

Karr Ingham [00:18:06] That was. Completely. Uncalled.

Rey Treviño [00:18:08] But what are your thoughts on this younger cabinet and this this younger group that he’s bringing in? You know, so, you know, let’s talk about Trump for a minute. What? Because that’s that’s different from other people that that, you know, that you probably run with on a daily basis that you support supported the Trump But what also is your thoughts on being younger than 50 I’m sorry but what are your thoughts? You know what do you think?

George P. Bush [00:18:33] Well, I would say the big topic outside of energy for a second is just securing the border. That to me, when I travel communities throughout the state of Texas, whether it’s Amarillo or on the border itself and south Texas, this was the number one issue among the minds of Texas voters and I suspect nationally as well. And the fact that the prior administration really just not only did not truthfully do their job under their constitutional obligations, but but really didn’t accurately reflect what they weren’t doing to the American public through committee testimony after committee testimony from Secretary Mayorkas at DHS. So seeing another governor come in, Kristi Noem, into this role is going to be really interesting and also a very young leader herself. You’re absolutely right. I mean, I happen to know Lee Zeldin very well, at least a phonic Marco Rubio of congratulated them all on on their nomination of Rubio. Yeah. And just I think it shows that this party has really expanded this tent under President Trump’s leadership. It’s not just focused on kind of the traditional demographics. He’s broken through with new demographic groups. I mean, who would have thought that Barron Trump would advise his dad to go on to broadcasts, as they’re called? Is this broadcast? I think this might be a broke and they’re busting down the doors. Democrats realize that they missed this opportunity, starting with Joe Rogan and others where he has a viewership of, what, 80 million people? Yeah, And this I think when political scientists look back on this campaign, they’re going to say they missed this opportunity. So President Trump, I think, realizes that it’s time for the next generation of leadership with these really important tasks. I mean, these it says a lot that you have very. Elise Stefanik, she number three in the Republican House leadership and decided, hey, I’m going to I’m gone. Maybe that’s more of a comment on the House. But nonetheless. But for somebody in her 40s to take on this role, I think speaks volumes about his approach to leadership in the second term.

Rey Treviño [00:20:40] You know, you talk about the podcasting real quick, and then I had a chance to talk about that last week and I said, you know, I didn’t have President Trump on my podcast, but I think that was the difference. A lot of it was that the freedom of speech we talk about that, you know, and that how podcast are really the ones that are like just getting out there and putting people’s messages out there. But no. So one of the things I know and then I know we’ve got a car and we’re going to continue our discussion, but I always got to find a way to ask this. And so we just got done. Ted Cruz just got reelected in a pretty debated about against some other guy. All right. I’ll give him that. Cornyn’s next. Some people are talking. He may retire. I mean, are we looking at you possibly running here for the Senate down the road? What chance or what are we doing.

George P. Bush [00:21:27] Not in the short term. I mean, I love this country, serves in the military, love the state, very prayerful and humble in my approach to life, love my private practice, and Michael Best, where we’re taking care of energy producers and entrepreneurs here in Texas. And we’ll see what what God has a plan has in store for us. I mean, I just know that it’s a decision that I’m going to be taking with my wife and my family. They’re my priority. So if they say, we need you to be the CEO of this home, then I’m going to do that. But I love Texas and would love to figure out ways to serve down the road. Yeah.

Rey Treviño [00:22:06] Well, George, I can’t thank you enough, Karr You know, you have to quit picking on him a little bit here and.

Karr Ingham [00:22:12] Take it on him. Listen, as if that’s even possible. But what a pleasure. It’s been.

George P. Bush [00:22:18] Good to be with you.

Rey Treviño [00:22:19] Yes. So thank you so much. I’ll see you soon. Yeah, right. All right. We’ll be right back. Well, that was a great conversation with you guys.

Karr Ingham [00:22:29] Love Devastating. My pleasure.

Rey Treviño [00:22:31] You enough. And that that was that’s awesome for me. So I like I told you, I was joking around. Thank you Karr for coming on because it helps me out more than it helps you.

Karr Ingham [00:22:41] I don’t know about that. But like you said, I can talk to any time you want to.

Rey Treviño [00:22:45] Well, let’s talk about the alliance. I mean, you guys are helping make moves and protect the oil and gas industry and the text of the lives of energy producers. What are you guys getting prepared for for 2025?

Karr Ingham [00:22:57] Well, we’re getting prepared for multiple things at the same time because we have really consequential, interesting things coming up. We just had the federal election, as you know, which means for us. Now knowing the political outcome. And this would have been different, by the way, if the mix would have been different. Let’s say Trump wins the White House, Republicans take the Senate, but Democrats take the House. That’s a different landscape or any other mix where you don’t have this so-called trifecta. Now that we know what this outcome is. It helps define the landscape in terms of the things that we’re going to be working on and toward with this administration and this Congress. And hopefully it makes it easier to get some of these things done than would otherwise be the case. I mean, if you’ve got one party controlling one of the chambers of the legislature, either the House or the Senate, they can just throw up a big roadblock to anything they want to. Thankfully, the Republicans got to do that in the last two years of the Biden administration by controlling the House. They stopped a lot of bad stuff from happening. And in their mind, anything Trump and the Republicans want to do, having to do with energy they think is bad stuff. And they would be throwing up walls and roadblocks. So knowing what the landscape is going to be, Republicans in control, even with narrow majorities, it raises the likelihood that we can get some things done specifically indirectly for oil and gas operators in Texas and elsewhere around the country. And in terms of unwinding some really bad regulation that has been put in place under the Biden administration. Some legislation that was passed is really onerous and damaging. We can get to work on these things and we already are, and this will only continue. We are, like all due respect. Most other Texas oil and gas groups, we also play in DC. Our board has instructed us to do this because you can get clobbered there. Tax policy that affects oil and gas producers, regulation, you name it. A lot of bad stuff can come out of DC. Well, of course, in addition to this, we also have Texas legislative session coming up in the first 5 or 6 months of 2025. This is really the principal reason we exist as a Texas statewide oil and gas association is to make sure we’re fighting the battles and doing the work in Texas at the legislative or regulatory level. So us working frankly all year long. But the session, of course, is when things happen. So we’re gearing up for this, always working on things that either the Railroad Commission or the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality, any agency that our operators are interfacing with on a on a regular basis on regulation. So there’s a lot coming up. And in 2025 and we’re just trying to get ready.

Rey Treviño [00:25:55] For it, you know, real quick and I know you’ve said this before, but I just want to highlight that with the Texas Lights and producers. You not only help out with the bigger companies, but you also represent the smaller producers. And I don’t know what the true definition is, but I always call a small producer somebody that makes 5000 barrels of oil a day or less. Is that a better or is it actually less than that?

Karr Ingham [00:26:18] I’ll draw the dividing line where you want to.

Rey Treviño [00:26:22] Talk about Pioneer and people like, well, that’s an independent like like like Pecos says, which is absolutely true. They’re an independent or they are.

Karr Ingham [00:26:28] Different kinds of independent.

Rey Treviño [00:26:29] Just

Karr Ingham [00:26:31] Not The same, but same class of.

Rey Treviño [00:26:33] Every independents. And but but yeah, I just want to, you know, like that your group helps protect and bring back independents because, you know, people know that there’s thousands of companies out there that do less than 200 barrels a day and they make a darn good living. Exactly right. But they don’t have the the they they don’t they got people like you that is fighting for them that work right alongside people like the the Land Commission or the the railroad commission to get things done to protect Texas jobs. Really, that’s what it’s about. I mean, we we kind of touched on energy security a few minutes ago, and we definitely could have gone off on that about how important energy security is. But that’s what all these jobs are providing. Is that true energy security? Right. And that’s what you’re protecting.

Karr Ingham [00:27:14] Well, as you say, we’ve got a great mix of companies. Most of the larger companies, the great big guys, the integrators, most of those are members of ours. And these are companies whose names everybody knows. Yeah. Then you go down to the the larger publicly traded independent oil or gas companies like Pioneer has been Conoco Phillips is kind of the super independent, great company, great member of ours. And they just do great things in terms of producing energy that again, our world needs and wants and demands and then to to kind of the next tier down of publicly traded independents, Diamondback, Matador, others, all great members of ours. And then as you suggest, we’ve got and and frankly, the legacy, the history of the alliance has been and it’s represented. Creation of smaller, independent, smaller private independents, as I like to say, very fond of saying, these are great. Sophisticated companies like yours who know what they’re doing. They’re great at it. They’ve been doing it for a long time and they know how to do it. And these are companies these are companies whose names really most people have never heard before. Right. But, man, they matter. Like you say, there are hundreds and thousands of them in Texas and and nationally. I don’t have any interest in seeing this class of companies go away. I mean, you can imagine a scenario where the cost of regulation and things that are heaped on the industry in terms of the cost of doing business ultimately results and such a level of consolidation in the future that let’s say we continue to set production records, but it’s all being done by 50 companies. I don’t have any interest in that landscape. The the the market environment is tough enough as it is, and it’s harder and harder over time without the burdens of overregulation for smaller companies to stick around and be in business consolidation, things that just kind of the natural economic progression of things has that effect. Anyway, I don’t want to hasten this by by burdensome regulation and policy that puts these people out of business. And to and by the way, it’s not just the companies, it’s the wells. Yeah. We have somewhere in the neighborhood of 280,000 active crude oil and natural gas wells in Texas. And as you were just saying, I mean, depending on where you want to draw the line in terms of production, daily production, the high majority of those are what you would call low volume wells. And the high majority of those are what you would federally define as stripper wells, right? They make up virtually I mean, they make up 80 to 90% of the total well count. But they’re meaningful. I mean, they’re scattered all over Texas. The last time I looked of Texas, 254 counties, there’s some reportable volume of crude oil and or natural gas being produced. And 85% of those, this is a pervasive permeating industry in Texas. It is top to bottom, east to west, north to south, and all points in between. And it makes up an extraordinary landscape out there. These companies and these wells are just a fabric of the landscape, the rural areas, the smaller communities. And you know this better than I do. Frankly, with every one of these wells comes economic activity in different forms. People get paid to run and produce these things. And the companies that that that run them get to operate them, get that revenue. But then that revenue is being paid out to working interest owners, to royalty owners. It’s being paid to local municipalities and school districts. That’s paid to the and is really huge and hospital districts. And the state gets a share of that and the severance taxes. And then routinely I mean these are the companies who are buying animals at stock show there their names on the back of a Little League baseball uniform. It’s crazy to think about doing away with those wells and those companies. And, man, we we we are we still are headed that direction. I mean, by my estimations, the combined effects of the so-called methane tax, the waste emissions charge and the methane rule finalized by the Biden administration over the last year or so, we stand to lose at least 60,000 of these 280,000 wells in Texas, and that number could easily be bigger than that. AP Double A’s national estimates, about 300,000 wells. And you know, if that’s true, at least 60,000 of those are going to come from Texas and it may be closer to a third of these wells just because the economics will not support layering on regulation costs. And what happens to that? Well, even if the company survives, a great many of their wells won’t. They’ll shut them in. And then there we are going down this path. We’re trying to keep that from happening.

Rey Treviño [00:32:32] And that’s you’ve touched on and really made point in so much. And for our listeners out there that I want to kind of go back and try to do a sum up of a couple of these things. You talk about the big companies that can handle the regulations, the methane. So an example is that West Texas lizard that David Blackman’s been fighting, right? You know, and Exxon, Chevron, they can afford to go get a half a dozen biologist for six months, pay him on their payroll and prove why it’s all good. Somebody like Pecos, if we had that lease and it’s like, hey, the lizards there, it’s like, I guess I’m done. Yeah. Then also, you talk about the stripper wells. And, you know, I joke with people that that I talk to all the time because that’s how we got our start was was buying older wells and reworking them.

Karr Ingham [00:33:17] That’s how this works. And that I.

Rey Treviño [00:33:18] Yeah. And you know, it’s always joke and I’ll be a little Crude. It’s called the Crude Truth used to say strippers have always been good to us, you know.

Karr Ingham [00:33:24] And who hadn’t who hadn’t made jokes about that.

Rey Treviño [00:33:27] Right. And so but it’s all in the small towns. And I was talking to one of my partners the other day how I was doing a little while. I was doing a little, I don’t know, cheek or whatever with him, but I was at another event and they told me that they that they were in the oil and gas space and that they never use local, never use local people. Wow. That’s what I thought. It’s like, wow. It’s like and you touched. It’s like when you drill a brand new well or rework a well. Not only do the working interests of royalty owners get it, but the local supply shop get something you’re eating dinner or lunch at one of the local restaurants. Are your taxes for that area are going to that local municipality that’s in a rural area. And it’s like the the positives that come out of drilling those oil well and producing oil in any environment in any area just helps out economically. So, so much So, you know, and that’s what I think is also great. And going back to it is like, you know, you got the smaller companies and it’s like there’s always a dollar amount. Like they don’t understand the economics and I’ll just use Exxon. They got a new one that’s going on at 10,000 barrels a day. When he gets to a certain amount of barrels of oil a day, they’re like, okay, that’s not economically viable for us. Then you get somebody else that’ll pick it up for 5000. They can still make a dollar up five, you know, might drop to a thousand and and so on. And that’s why we got so many. But there’s somebody there that can make it work that not only can they provide themselves a living, but they’re providing energy to America that’s reliable, abundant and resource.

Karr Ingham [00:35:01] That’s exactly what they’re doing. And of course, this gets all the way down to the strip oil level with some of these, as you well know. I mean, they’re around for decades and decades. And there’s another great organization that we partner up with on a lot of stuff called the National Association of they have a cap that says Save Our Stripers, by the way.

Rey Treviño [00:35:21] I did not Know that.

Karr Ingham [00:35:21] Who wouldn’t get behind that? I suppose this is companies whose model is to ultimately acquire these wells in the latter stages of these wells like that. Again, as you know, these wells can operate in a barrel or 2 or 3 for years upon years upon years. And they have figured out how to make this model work. And they see these wells through the end of their useful life. And then and then they they put them to rest and perfectly responsible for them by plugging those wells and calling it a day. But it’s after a long period of time. And again, I had all of these together and it’s a market moving volume of production. And so it’s it’s not the lion’s share. It’s not the majority of production, even though it is the majority of wells. But doing away with that with that, let’s say it’s 10% of the of the US total. I mean, losing 10% of that is meaningful. And and so you’re right about the larger companies. Listen, I, I don’t mind big oil. I like big oil. It’s a big world. Yep. And these companies do extraordinary things. I got to go on a refinery tour of ExxonMobil in Baton Rouge a couple of weeks ago at a meeting of the US Association for Energy Economics, which I’m a part of. And just seeing what these guys do and how they take raw product coming in on the one side and spit out about 15 fantastic products on the other side that we all use all day, every day. Just so fascinating to see this at work. I appreciate their upstream work. I certainly appreciate their downstream work. They bring great things to us, but again, they’re not all there is to oil and gas production in the US. There’s room for all of these kinds of companies and their business models work for them and they’re again all great at what they do. I’m so thrilled and proud that they are members of ours and we’re partnered up on these things. But as you say, we’re we’re really proud. And I would say more than that. I mean, I this is certainly true for me personally. I have an affinity and affection for these smaller guys and the wells they operate, and we are fiercely protective of them. Those wells, those operators in that space. We are of all of our members, but certainly certainly that classification of operator and wells, it’s our honor to get to do this, my honor to get to be the president of this outfit, and hopefully we can get some good work done here.

Rey Treviño [00:37:56] And I didn’t even take you because you would not even had it six months. I think

Karr Ingham [00:38:01] July, July was when this happened. So yeah, not six months.

Rey Treviño [00:38:03] I know last time when you came on the show, you were the interim.

Karr Ingham [00:38:06] That’s right.

Rey Treviño [00:38:07] And went off to go private sector.

Karr Ingham [00:38:13] Yeah. He’s he’s, he’s. He’s doing what he’s really good at. He’s doing government relations and he was really good at run at us. But he’s he’s doing governor oceans work now for a midstream company and they’re lucky to have him.

Rey Treviño [00:38:24] But and you know, I want to say this, that you said something about the combining how the big companies are good. And I will look in the channels, I think about the Texas alliance. What I love is that you’re protecting the small companies as a whole, almost like because they are trying to regulate us out. That’s what I feel like they’re trying to do, trying to regulate.

Karr Ingham [00:38:44] I think that’s true. I mean, this this the Biden administration, EPA is really it almost made an. No secret of this. They are joined at the hip with EDF, the Environmental Defense Fund, and they’ve put out all manner of information about methane emissions that come from low volume wells. And they just say, listen, this can be just fine with all of these guys if smaller operators and smaller wells when everybody knows the big guys are not going anywhere. Yeah, but everybody doesn’t know that. The little guys, I mean, it’s going to be. If we don’t if we don’t turn back the clock, if we are unable to unwind some of this stuff, it’s that’s putting this landscape that we’ve been talking about at risk really in jeopardy. And so we’ve got our work cut out for us and we’ve already been chirping at these guys. Yeah. Incoming administration and we we we employ a guy in DC to take care of this for us to kind of manage that workforce and already put him on notice, man, that it’s time to get to work. We’ve got things to get done.

Rey Treviño [00:39:49] Yeah well car for those out there that for any M.P. companies or operators that that want to get in contact with you and your team over there in terms of types of clients, how can they get in contact with you?

Karr Ingham [00:40:00] You can just go to Texas alliance.org and you see our information there and you know they know how to get in touch with you and you know how to get in touch with me. Love to talk to these guys. The more members we have, the better off we are, the more resources we have to fight this fight. We’ve got other value added programs like oil and gas related liability insurance and worker’s comp and all these things that are Texas Alliance programs as well through a great company called Big Co. And the guys that manage these programs for us, it’s really beneficial to the operator landscape and Texas, large and small companies alike. So, so but again, the reason we exist is to do the advocacy work in Texas and in DC, principally in Texas. We think we’re the best at this, and so we’d love to. We love to be partners with every Texas oil and gas operator.

Rey Treviño [00:40:59] Awesome. Well, again Karr, I cannot thank you enough. I know you’re here for meetings. I’m glad I was able to get you here on the show today. Thank you. Thank you very much. And to all our listeners out there. Here we go. We’re very excited for 2025. And thank you as always for listening or watching another episode of The Crude Truth.

Narrator [00:41:19] Again, the crude Truth would like to think today’s sponsors LFS Chemistry, Nape Expo, Air Compressor Solutions, Sandstone Group, Exec Crue, Texas Star Alliance, Pecos Country Operating and Real News Communication Network.

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