Energy Realities EP#101 LIVE with special guest Robert Bryce on his new Documentary!

Don’t miss the great LIVE panel for the Energy Realities team: David Blackmon, Tammy Nemeth, Irina Slav, and Stu Turley. Robert Bryce’s new Documentary is an amazing story with some great filming, and information around the global energy markets. – You don’t want to miss the personal discussions. –

Ask Robert and the pannel questions live! We had great questions and comments from everyone on all of the live

LinkedIn, YouTube, and X channels.

#podcast #energynews #energysecurity #grid #energysecurity #naturalgas #oilandgas #renewableenergy

@JuiceTheSeries – is a must-watch!!!! – Thank you Robert,

Tammy, Irina and @davidblackmon6807 for the pannel.

Critical Links: https://juicetheseries.com/

https://robertbryce.substack.com/

https://irinaslav.substack.com/

https://theenergynewsbeat.substack.com/

Highlights of the Podcast:

01:33 – Provide power in a reliable manner.02:39 – How Electricity Explains World04:15 – Politics and the grid?05:26 – The electric market in Britain07:21 – Reduce CO2 emissions08:39 – The world in the new nuclear renaissance10:55 – The eastern U.S12:26 – The first energy crisis13:18 – The coal plants are built on the coal seam16:20 – The policy grid and the political grid19:16 – The climate change concern19:57 – Our energy and power systems22:02 – The energy transition26:03 – Western elites talking about climate change27:47 – France had a ballpark30:06 – Five gigawatts of gas and two gigawatts of coal31:39 – The NGOs34:59 – Japan is going to restart its nuclear reactors36:59 – Nuclear fuel reprocessing38:06 – The United States for rational policy40:24 – Reliable energy and power44:50 – The Constitutional Court46:14 – The removal of the turbines48:23 – The time that the particular bill52:59 – The global electricity sector54:33 – Alternative energy

Armondo Cavanha LinkedIn:Irina Slav, Energy Writer LinkedIn:David Blackmon, Consultant, Writer, speaker, podcaster, miner of absurdities LinkedIn:Tammy Nemeth, Energy Consulting Specialists LinkedIn: Stu Turley, CEO, Podcast Host, Legend in his own mind LinkedIn:

Stuart Turley [00:00:02] All right. Hey good morning everybody. Welcome to the energy realities. We’ve got an action packed show today. We have on the panel today, we have Irina Slav from Bulgaria. How are you this morning, Irina?

Irina Slav [00:00:18] Great. Thank you. Stu.

Stuart Turley [00:00:19] And then we have the Tammy name as she is, tired. She just flew in from Canada. Welcome. Tammy from the UK.

Tammy Nemeth [00:00:28] Hello. Good morning.

Stuart Turley [00:00:30] And then we have the David Blackman. I mean, he is the energy absurdity guru. How are you, sir?

David Blackmon [00:00:38] I’m tan, rested and ready to go, but.

Stuart Turley [00:00:41] And we have. A special guest today, one of my all time energy heroes, Robert Bryce, host of the Power Hungry podcast. Thank you Robert. Hi. Glad. Glad to be with y’all. I’ll tell you what, we are going to have an absolute blast. We’re going to have a little bit of the run a show right here. We have this is I’m going to show a 32nd clip as we get started on juice, the, the series and, Robert, what’s the website?

Video [00:01:18] Difficult to keep it.

Robert Bryce [00:01:20] Juice the series.com. Did I mention juice? The series.com? I hope I mentioned juice the series.com.

Stuart Turley [00:01:26] And let me just show this real quick intro. I thought this was a critical piece. Robert, I hope you don’t.

Video [00:01:31] Mind stable or difficult to provide power in a reliable manner. More expensive can gain it by taking a couple plants offline and watching the clearing price, or taking plants offline in the old grid didn’t do you any good in the new grid. It does.

Video [00:01:52] That new grid Meredith talking about wasn’t designed to prioritize consumers. The old grid, the one built by people like Edison, Insull and others, ensured reliability because if electricity isn’t reliable, it’s not affordable.

Stuart Turley [00:02:08] You know, Robert, as we go through and the team asks you questions and things, we really are excited about, your a your first movie and then the series. Can you tell us a little bit about the three year journey you had on how you got to this series and what it’s about?

Robert Bryce [00:02:26] Sure. Well, first, thanks for having me on. You know, I admire all the work that all of you are doing. So glad to be with you. Just a brief history. So, the first project my colleague Tyson Coburn I made is, Juice How Electricity Explains World, which was a feature length documentary that came out in 2019. And I thought I was done making documentaries because they just take too long. They cost too much. They’re just a ton of friction. But then we were blacked out. I live in Austin, Texas, and we were blacked out in 2021, almost exactly three years ago. And in the wake of that blackout for, you know, we lost power for two days, Tyson lost both power and water. We understood. And, you know, we, Bill Magnus from the former head of Ercot said the Ercot grid was in for within 4 or 5 minutes of total collapse. And so I realized on a personal basis, well, I there was something here for me that I needed to tell this story. I was uniquely positioned to explain why the grid has been what one the importance of the electric grid, second, why it has become so fragile, and third, what we need to do to fix it. So those were the things that motivated me to do it. I, you know, I, I’m not, being, falsely but. Well, I was called to make this project and rather than make a, an 80 minute feature, as we did in the first film, we made a five episode, series, each episode about 20 minutes. They’re free. They’re available on YouTube. We want to change the conversation. We want to call attention to the electric grid, its importance, and all these misplaced incentives that are now in place that are weakening the grid rather than strengthening it. So, that’s the the brief background.

Stuart Turley [00:03:59] Oh, fantastic. And David, you had a few questions there too.

David Blackmon [00:04:03] You know, Robert, gosh, I was blacked out for five days during Winter Storm Uri in 2021, in Mansfield, Texas. What are the striking aspects of of juice, power, politics and the grid? To me was the reminder that the way our grid works now was essentially structured by one company back about 25 years ago. Enron. Yeah. Enron. Yeah. Provided the model for how the US grid operates today. Talk about that aspect of things.

Robert Bryce [00:04:39] Sure. Well, so I’ve written six books. I’m not bragging. I’ve written six books. My first book was on Enron, and now it’s 22 years ago. It’s hard to believe, but true. And here, all these years later, I’m still talking about writing about Enron. But Enron had a big impact on the energy sector and had a big impact on the power sector. And Enron successfully promoted this idea that, electricity can be traded just like natural gas, right? Enron was very successful in the, the first, the George H.W. Bush administration getting, natural gas deregulated. And I think that was a very positive thing. But the assumption was that we could treat electricity just as we treat gas. Well, it just it’s not the same thing. Electricity is not a not a, a commodity. It’s a service. But, Enron was successful in getting the electric market in Britain deregulated. Then they went to California, and then they came to Texas. And in all three places, they had the support of both the conservatives and the liberals, because the conservatives could say, well, we’re for free markets, and the liberals could say, oh, great, then solar and wind are going to be able to compete in the market and everything’s going to be hunky dinky. Well, as we know now, and particularly after the, winter storm Uri, the, in the wake of that, everyone said, well, who’s responsible for reliability? And everyone said, well, no one’s responsible for reliability. The market failed. Well, who created the market? A bunch of lawyers. And why are they lawyers? Because they could do the math to get into engineering school. So we’re in this situation where we have an a, our most important energy networks. Ultimately, there’s no one in charge of reliability. And it’s not everywhere in the country, but across big parts of the country. We’ve got this idea that, oh, electricity should just be treated as as any kind of other commodity, like orange juice or, or grape nut cereal or something else. It’s fundamentally different. And so that specter of Enron, still haunts our electricity system today. And it’s, it’s an incredibly difficult thing to address because the complexity, the system has become so enormous.

David Blackmon [00:06:33] So one of the things in January we had this cold snap in Texas, which was really a pale comparison to a year ago. But but it was a pretty significant cold snap and the grid did fine. Got through. It, didn’t have disruptions and natural gas flows like we had during wind and solar did. Okay. You know, they failed when you expect them to fail and, you know, supplied some electricity when you expected them to. So that’s all great too. But does that mean our grid’s fixed in Texas? We still have some pretty significant problems we have to address.

Robert Bryce [00:07:05] No we aren’t. I don’t think it has been fixed. And I think more, you know, let’s let’s zoom out just from Texas to more broadly across the US. What I see in a pro natural gas. But our system is becoming too reliant on one fuel and that is natural gas. Now that has helped reduce CO2 emissions because we’re displacing coal. Well, that’s fine. And that’s one you could argue. Okay, well, that’s a positive outcome. But the problem is and the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, the net and North American Electric Reliability Corporation pointed this out many times. The electric grid and the gas grid are now interdependent and codependent. And so we’re becoming too dependent on one fuel. And that’s a real problem. And we saw during Winter Storm Elliot, and now a year a year ago, Christmas, the entire gas grid in New York City almost failed. Well, that would have been catastrophic. So would the punch line here. All of these things that we’re talking about is we’re ignoring the fragility and the importance of these key energy networks at our extreme peril. And we need to and we need to pay attention. We need to wake up because, if these systems fail, the results will be catastrophic.

David Blackmon [00:08:12] Yeah. And so what’s the most viable option other than natural gas? This is my last question. Sure. Viable option.

Robert Bryce [00:08:19] Well, I mean, our film is adamantly pro-nuclear. No, I’m not going to suggest that this is easy. It’s not going to be quick. It’s not going to be cheap. It’s not going to be easy. It’s going to take sustained effort to bring nuclear back in America. We also in our fourth episode, we go to Canada and we point out Canada now, and it’s very clear. And even since the film came out, Canada’s going to lead the world in the new nuclear renaissance. There’s just no doubt about it, because they have all the things in place that they need. They have strong governmental support, they have the workforce, they have their own, unique reactor design. And I also think Eastern Europe and Irina can, of course, talk more, more knowledgeably about that than I can. But the Eastern European countries have far more motivation to adopt new nuclear than the than the US does. Of course, because it’s, you know, lack of supplies of natural gas, but also gas. And that gas there in Europe is, 4 or 5 times the cost of gas here in the US. So there are many reasons why the US should be moving toward nuclear. But I think we are going if I’m very sober about it, very candid about it, we’re going to lag many parts of the rest of the world because we’re not under the same kind of pressure other countries are.

Stuart Turley [00:09:24] Irina, what do you think about, nuclear in Europe, as. Robert was saying.

Irina Slav [00:09:29] Which is absolutely right, because Eastern European countries are being pressured to decarbonize, as fast as possible, which means shutting down, coal power plants. And the only way to replace these generation capacity with anything reliable is not wind and solar. It’s nuclear. We have no problem with nuclear, unlike Germans. So it just makes sense, even though it’s really expensive. The upfront costs are really, really high, especially for poorer economies. But we already have some nuclear in in Bulgaria, in Romania. Poland is going big on on nuclear as well. And this is because of European Union pressure. I was going to ask you, Robert, about coal. Everybody hates coal. It’s dirty, etc. but you said that the US grid has become extremely reliant on natural gas. Do you see a future for coal?

Robert Bryce [00:10:33] Well, yes I do. Unfortunately, I think that future is going to be continuing declining market share. In my view, we should keep all of the coal plants we have right now open. But to assure reliability, and we have had different RTOs, regional transmission organizations in the across the U.S. saying we need these resources. In fact, there’s a big battle on in PJM in the eastern U.S. over a very specific coal plant, called, Bonner, Bonner Shores, Bottom Shores in Maryland. It’s 1200 megawatts. And PJM said we need this plant for reliability, but the plant is being shut down by its owner because it’s being sued by the Sierra Club. So we’re seeing we’re seeing cases where you it’s very clear that the coal plants are needed for reliability. There was another report just recently from mice for the Midcontinent Independent System Operator, talking about the premature shuttering of these thermal plants and how important they are to energy security, and yet they’re being shut down anyway. So, you know, I would put it this way. Arena is one we need those plants for reliability and affordability. But second, it makes no sense for the United States to think that we’re going to solve the climate challenge, by ourselves. When in 2022, the Chinese China was permitting two new coal plants a week. China now has 1.25 terawatts, or 1.2 terawatts of installed coal fired capacity. That’s equal to the entire installed generation capacity of the United States grid. And they’re building 300,000MW of new coal. So, you know, this this idea that somehow the there’s this hubris in the West that we’re going to solve this issue, it’s wrong. Climate change is a concern. It is not our only concern.

Stuart Turley [00:12:18] Great point.

Tammy Nemeth [00:12:19] Yeah. Well, said.

Stuart Turley [00:12:20] Tammy, what do you think?

Tammy Nemeth [00:12:22] Well, you know, it’s interesting you talk about coal because during the first energy crisis, it was a matter of switching over or oil fired power to coal because it was about energy diversification. Things to do, kind of like China is now where they’re it’s everything is on the grid. So, you know, China is producing the wind and solar and all the coal and the natural gas and the nuclear and more hydro and they’re they’re tampering a little bit with geothermal. So they’re doing all of the above. And meanwhile, Canada, for example, there’s the province of Saskatchewan that has three coal fired plants. They don’t produce all that much. And they’re supposed to shut by 2030. Right. And in a in a province that doesn’t have access to very good hydro, it’s flat. It’s dry. And, the solution that Ottawa is saying is build wind and solar. But, you know, we have a lot of coal. The coal plants are built on the coal seam. And, you know, it’s reliable. And I really liked your point in, in the the documentary series there that diversification is really important. Japan is doing diversification. So and then I think of. How. There’s the clean coal technology. So it’s possible to do the scrubbing to do all that to reduce the amount of emissions. And it, it all it does is make the, the grid more fragile. And. Yeah. So that’s just my little comments about that. But I really enjoyed how you presented that case that we can’t just be reliant on natural gas, we can’t just be reliant on renewables. I’m a little concerned that people will be, get dependent on nuclear, which has its own issues, but.

Robert Bryce [00:14:12] Sure. Yeah.

Tammy Nemeth [00:14:12] Do you think. It’s.

Robert Bryce [00:14:13] In the series? I’ll just add one quick point, and that is that Meredith Angwin calls it the Fatal Trifecta, which is just a great formulation. And she says, and what is that Fatal trifecta? She says it’s overreliance on renewables. It’s overreliance on just in time gas and over reliance on imports. And so during Winter Storm Uri, of course, Texas can’t import much, electricity from anywhere else. We’re kind of an island in Ercot, but we had, you know, I’m pro natural gas, but it’s a just in time fuel. And that’s different from having coal. Big stack of coal out in the in the yard or having, even oil and oil tank full of oil where you can fire that up or, in the case of nuclear plants having, having uranium on site. But it’s absolutely critical to understand what you’re saying. Tammy, and this, this diversification is absolutely key. And it’s, you know, you have to if you’re going to talk about energy security, it’s required that you quote Churchill. And Churchill said in like 1906 or whatever energy security, it depends on variety and variety alone. Now he was talking about oil and Persian in the British Navy. But yeah, you need diverse supplies of energy to assure energy security. And we’re losing that. Yeah.

Stuart Turley [00:15:22] You know, Robert, as, as your, documentary title is also regulatory and, we getting some other great questions in here, and we’ll get to those here in a second. I have to hand it to the, current administration’s energy policies. They really are truly, agnostic. They’re obnoxious to all forms of energy. We have 24,000, whatever the number is, projects to attach to the grid. And do you see any, as your title says, is there any hope for political, solving, legislation through regulatory actions coming around the corner? What do you see there?

Robert Bryce [00:16:07] Sure. Well, you’re right, it’s in our title juice power politics and the grid. And the politics of the grid are. And I think Meredith or Emmett Penny, who’s also does a great job on the film. He talks about the physical grid and the policy grid and the political grid. Right. These are the things that affect that policy. But I think that the the key thing to remember here, Stu, is that the politics are happening at the local, state and federal levels. Right? So you have such, you know, policies like in California, where you have over 70 communities banning the use of natural gas and saying they’re going to electrify everything. So that’s one impact on the grid. And then you have net zero policies at local levels, and then you have the states deciding some of these things, and then you have state level regulators with their public utility commissions. And then you have at the federal level, you have the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, and then you have all these other different federal agencies, whether it’s the D.o.e., Environmental Protection Agency or others that are also having, political effect on the grid. So all of these things have to be looked at as a whole. And that makes this an incredibly difficult issue to address. But I’m very proud of the series, if I could. One specific episode just to switch the focus for just a minute. It’s episode three, which is called Green Dreams. I’m from Oklahoma. I have deep roots in Oklahoma. I’m a member of the Cherokee tribe. My great uncle, Ernie Rapp, was a member of the Osage tribe. He was born in 1909, in Fairfax, Oklahoma. So he had a front row seat to the Reign of Terror in the 1920s, during which, you know, it was there’s conspiracy of of white folks to kill Osage tribal members for their oil wealth and their land. And that’s, of course, the focus of Martin Scorsese’s new film, The Killers of the Flower Moon. So we went to Osage County many times in episode three, focuses on the Osage tribe’s battle with INL over a wind project. It’s the longest running legal battle over wind energy in American history, and in December, the tribe won a key victory in federal court in Oklahoma and Tulsa. In fact, my home town, and the judge ordered the removal of 84 wind turbines. It’s an unprecedented legal ruling. And so we went, well, I’m not going to say we anticipated the ruling, but we knew that was a great story, and I’m really happy with how it came out. So episode three, Green Dreams, is, wanted to make sure not to miss. And then I mentioned juice the series.com. I hope I mentioned Juice the series.com, where the five episodes of the part of the documentary are all free to Juice the series.com.

David Blackmon [00:18:36] Maybe you should also mention your Substack Robert, but which is also tremendous.

Robert Bryce [00:18:40] Well thank you. I, I write almost exclusively on Substack now and I love Substack. Robert bryce.substack.com. Thank you David.

Stuart Turley [00:18:47] And we all have some pretty cool Substack, especially, Irene and David.

David Blackmon [00:18:53] Keeping in there.

Stuart Turley [00:18:53] Hey, Irina, David. And, Tammy, there’s some great comments coming in, and if you can see them in the, pick some of the questions coming in. And, anybody want to snag a question, put it up there and talk about it with Robert?

David Blackmon [00:19:08] Well, I thought this one was good, Robert. And, I think it’s something you probably would want to respond to from Tom Mumford, about, the climate change concern. Yeah, sure.

Robert Bryce [00:19:21] Well, look, I, you know, I understand the concern about this, and there is a lot of money. Let me be very clear. A lot of money. There are hundreds of millions of dollars that are going, through, 501 C3, 501 C4 to push the issue around climate change. And so, my view on it is, okay, climate change is a concern. We we need to pay attention to this, but we cannot ignore these other issues. Climate change is a concern. It’s not our only concern. We also have to be very clear about the reliability, affordability and resilience of our energy and power systems. So can we can we have some can we make efforts to decarbonize? Yes, we can, and we are making some progress there. But we cannot ignore the issue, particularly of affordability and reliability, because they go hand in hand. I said at the end of the first episode, yeah, that, if if the electricity isn’t affordable, it’s not enough. It’s not reliable. It’s not affordable. Look at the general. Look at Generac sales. Right. Standby generator sales here in the United States. They’re booming. Well, who is the average buyer? You can look at their investor relations materials and find out well, who’s their average buyer. The average household income of a Generac buyer is $145,000 a year. That’s more than twice the national average, the national median. So who gets hurt by, unreliable energy? Who gets hurt by unaffordable energy? It’s the poor in the middle class, and they are not getting the kind any attention in these discussions when it comes to climate change. So that’s yes, we need we yes, we can pay attention to climate change and we can take action on climate change, but it has to be balanced against all these other needs in our society.

Stuart Turley [00:21:04] You know, Robert, disproportionately impacted. Communities. Are not getting any favors by, regulatory actions. It’s horrific.

Robert Bryce [00:21:14] Yeah. It well, I agree, I spoke in New Orleans oh, about two years ago, and it was right near the Superdome. And New Orleans is one of the poorest big cities in America. And before my presentation, I went and walked around the neighborhood around the Superdome. And New Orleans is I mean, it’s part of that town of been devastated. And I was looking around, going, walking through these neighborhoods that, you know, have been have been hit hard. They’re poverty stricken. There are no Teslas in the hood. There are no EVs in the barrio. You know, this is ridiculous. I mean, it’s absolutely absurd. And so I see a lot of this climate, this climate action as really as class warfare. And I think it’s in many cases just that stark. And I think that warfare is, in fact, the right term. Really to share. I had a great piece on Substack a few months ago. He said, the the working class is not down with the energy transition. Of course they’re not, because they look at all this and they think, I’m not, you know, I can’t afford a Tesla. You know, if you’re a carpenter, bricklayer or, you know, a mason and you’re driving an F-150 or an F-250 or a, you know, a Ram pickup or something, you know, drive a Tesla, those are these are rich. These are these are virtue signaling vehicles for rich white Democrats. And that is the truth.

David Blackmon [00:22:24] Yes.

Stuart Turley [00:22:26] David, you had. With the energy absurdities of the day, you had a film. Would it be a good, time here to show just a little bit?

David Blackmon [00:22:35] Sure. Why not show this?

Stuart Turley [00:22:38] Tell us what’s going on here.

David Blackmon [00:22:39] So this is from Portugal. Climate activists were, blocking the road, in one of the major cities there. And watch what happens. This is so awesome. They just say, no,.

Stuart Turley [00:22:52] This is. It with Robert. This is Robert dragging them up. Just kidding. That’s just a joke.

David Blackmon [00:22:58] One of the major cities in Portugal, they’re they’re a lot less patient in Portugal than the Germans. And Brits are with these people in Britain.

Tammy Nemeth [00:23:05] You couldn’t do that because you’d get arrested. You get charged with assault.

Stuart Turley [00:23:09] You mean the dragger would be arrested, Tammy?

Tammy Nemeth [00:23:13] Yeah, yeah.

David Blackmon [00:23:14] Oh, yeah. Definitely that that actually.

Tammy Nemeth [00:23:17] You can’t touch. You can’t do anything. It’s considered assault.

Stuart Turley [00:23:23] Wow.

Irina Slav [00:23:24] It might have something to do with being a wealthier or poorer nation, because Portugal is among the poorer members of the European Union. And, yeah, these people imagine anyone trying to do this here in Bulgaria. They will just be dragged off the road. They will be beaten. I have to.

David Blackmon [00:23:46] Say, we don’t have a big problem with it in Texas either.

Irina Slav [00:23:49] Yeah, maybe that’s why they’re not trying it, because they know what will happen.

Robert Bryce [00:23:55] You know the arena when you say that. If I could just jump in, one of the things that pops into my head is something I haven’t written about, but I will. Rob Henderson is an American. He has a new book out. It’s called troubled. And he’s coined this term luxury beliefs. And that is something that it goes to the, the heart of what you’re talking about there is that in the West, in, in wealthy Western countries, we attached onto these luxury beliefs around a we can we can just ban internal combustion engine vehicles, we can ban gas stoves. And who are the ones that are pressing these kinds of policies? They are the not just the elites, the super elites. Right. And on the east went coastal or coastal cities and in in non-governmental organizations that have massive budgets. But they are in fact luxury beliefs. You can’t, you know, as you say in poorer countries, these ideas around, oh, blocking the road. Are you kidding me? Get the hell out of my way.

Irina Slav [00:24:49] No, no, no. It’s censored. Sorry. No. Just very quickly. I love this term. Luxury believes, because the only ones who can afford to have these beliefs are people who have never felt, you know, shortage of anything in their lives, especially young people. Yeah. You have this urge to be on the right side of history, to be good, to do good. And they genuinely believe that doing good by, you know, throwing soup at a painting or most recently, some jam on a bust of Queen Victoria or something.

David Blackmon [00:25:27] Yeah. We can’t we can’t run that.

Irina Slav [00:25:29] They’re doing the right thing. They they have no space in their heads for the idea that most people, including in their own countries, those wealthy Western countries. Cannot afford to have these beliefs.

Robert Bryce [00:25:43] Yeah. And they’ve never faced deprivation, right? They’ve never had. They’ve never had hardship. Right? They’ve never wondered whether there’s going to be enough butane or propane in the tank for them to cook dinner or whatever else. And so it’s, you know, I’ve had Jesper Mucheru, who’s a Kenyan farmer, on my podcast, and it’s just, you know, his view on this. He’s just absolutely so dismissive of Western elites talking about climate change and saying, you know, come to me, come to my village and deal with how we deal with our daily life, and you would change your mind. That’s my view on these just stop oil soup throwing kids that are okay, fine. Here’s your punishment. You go live in sub-Saharan Africa for five years and you’re not allowed to use any hydrocarbons ever. And then report back and tell us how much you love it. I mean.

Irina Slav [00:26:29] You know, I’ll say, can just phone is offered for, you know, these internships in Kenya.

Stuart Turley [00:26:36] We got a great question from Pinchas. I hope I get your name right. Colon LNG could still be a better alternative until Russia’s threat is seriously adjourned. Yeah.

Irina Slav [00:26:48] Boy, did you say something. This this viewer clearly has some very strong feelings towards Russia. Now, if Russia wanted to do something to Europe, it would do it. Okay.

David Blackmon [00:27:02] And Russia has an example.

Irina Slav [00:27:05] Russia has energy commodities to sell and it’s selling them. It’s not stopping anyone from buying them. It’s Europe that is stopping the imports. And they’re struggling to ban Russian LNG because they’ve been taking it so much.

Stuart Turley [00:27:21] This brings up another question here. And I again, I, I’m from Texas, Oklahoma like Robert are we Tex Oaks or OPEC’s and my, my, I believe, my, living proof that over the reliance over reliance on nuclear isn’t really a risk. I’m going to disagree with this one a bit, and I want everybody’s opinion. France had a ballpark. It fit 4850 nuclear reactors. They cut. Their. Maintenance in half. They had 25 of their reactors. Ballpark. I need to fact check these numbers, but they had half the fleet working. But yet they’re still selling electricity off. What are any thoughts on on that? And hopefully answering that question. But didn’t stir the pot up.

Irina Slav [00:28:18] Well, they they they have a bad case of, bad maintenance, mismanagement of their nuclear fleet. On. Who was it? The nuclear energy expert. His name escapes me. He wrote a lot about this, explaining it in detail. Oh, come on, American guy with mustache. I’m so sorry.

David Blackmon [00:28:39] Mark Nelson may be right.

Irina Slav [00:28:41] Thank you. Thank you. Sorry, Mark. If you’re watching. So he. He detailed the story of France trying to get off nuclear for some reason, probably to be greener than green.

David Blackmon [00:28:55] Because it just.

Irina Slav [00:28:56] Ended up, you know, having to do some urgent repairs to be able to export nuclear energy to Germany, which was struggling because of its wind and solar panels, that.

Robert Bryce [00:29:08] While in Germany, of course, makes the most interesting story in Europe because what are they doing? They’re burning more lignite, right? And they’re expanding the Gaz Weiler lignite mine, like it’s our project, that they’re expanding that lignite mine. And to expand it, they had to take down. Wait for it. A wind project, right? You know. You really can’t make this up. But, you know, I think ultimately, you know, practical politics and practical energy issues are going to prevail. And we see that already in Europe where what is happening in Europe is, and in Germany in particular, is they’re looking around and they’re saying, hey, we got to open. We got to keep these lignite mines open. And in fact, we have to expand them. And I saw the same thing in, in, Japan when I was there a year ago. What is happening in Japan today? Well, Tepco, Tokyo Electric Power Company, the company that owns Fukushima Daiichi, they’re finishing two ultra supercritical coal plants on Tokyo Bay. All in Japan is building seven gigawatts of, coal fired capacity and gas fired capacity, about five gigawatts of gas and two gigawatts of coal. So ultimately, energy security is going to win out. And it may take a while, but it it, I think that’s what I see. And I, and I hope that’s what happens here in the United States when it comes to the electric grid. But I think we’re still a very long way from that.

Stuart Turley [00:30:25] I think, Tom. Irina, I think you’re correct. I think the West and Russia have much more in common than differences. I wish past, but, biases would open eyes to new possibilities. I believe this. Was.

Irina Slav [00:30:42] Great. Yeah, but, there’s some very, very bad plots politically, so.

David Blackmon [00:30:48] Yeah.

Irina Slav [00:30:49] Two big topic to go into.

Tammy Nemeth [00:30:52] I wanted to comment on, Robert, you had a recent Substack about the role of philanthropies in these foundations and in funding a lot of the activism and and what a problem that is. And I think about how Bloomberg had his Beyond Coal campaign, and now he’s got his beyond natural gas and beyond petrochemicals. Right. So the, you know, the shift of all that money, and it’s not just Bloomberg, you know, it’s the there’s about 32 major American foundations and there’s a couple of European ones thrown in there that fund almost all of this activism. And, and I I’m what do you think is their ultimate goal. What do they want out of this? Why are they doing it.

Robert Bryce [00:31:35] All right. You’re so you’re talking about the the the the billionaires or the or the the NGOs themselves.Both the billionaire. Well fair enough. So. Well, let me just talk about the NGOs themselves, what I, what I call the anti industry industry. Right. I mean, this is a very powerful it’s a very powerful sector of the economy. And it is a sector on its own. I calculated that their annual revenues are on the order of $4.5 billion per year. So they’re a bureaucracy just like any other. And what is the first motivation of a bureaucracy is to maintain the bureaucracy. Right. So you have a whole lot of people who are elites who live in San Francisco. Let’s be clear where these people live San Francisco, New York, Washington, DC, and they work for these nonprofit entities in which their first concern is they may to make sure they maintain their own job because they’re making nice salaries, you know, several hundred thousand dollars a year if you’re at the top of some of these organizations. So what do they do? Well, let’s pass some policy. Let’s push some policy because then if we get them policy in place, we get more checks from our rich donors. But as far as the motivations for the billionaires themselves tell me, I think there’s I mean, Martin Luther would recognize a lot of this. I mean, let’s be clear. You know, the carbon credits. I mean, you know, this should be this is here. These are indulgences. Jeff Bezos has yacht, has a yacht. I mean, and he’s one of the biggest CO2 emitters in the world, right? So he’s giving money. Same with with Bloomberg. He has 12 or 14 houses. This is his kind of carbon get out of jail free card. I mean, I’m not going to, you know, presume to know exactly what his motivation is. But, you know, these are all these billionaires that are funding this. They’re all Democrats. They all have more money than they know what to do with. And so I think this is their way of saying, oh, well, we’ll see. We’re concerned about climate change while they sail around the world on their yachts. Laurene Powell Jobs is one of them. She has an enormous fear. And an enormous carbon footprint has been documented. She’s one of the big funders of this whole. The Climate Imperative Foundation is one of the key funders of a lot of this. Electrify everything. Push. So, you know, these are very, very powerful people. And regardless of who’s in the white House, these these NGOs are going to continue to push their, policies, which in many cases, I think are, in fact a national security threat. And I made that point a week ago in Washington at the Nehru conference. I gave the keynote there, and I said, if these groups were if Osama bin laden or a similar terrorist was saying they want to shut down 40% of all the electricity generation in America and do it in the next five years, they would be viewed as a national security threat, and they would be investigated by the top security people in America. But because it’s Michael Bloomberg saying this and that is his stated goal. You know, it’s crickets.

Stuart Turley [00:34:16] Wow.

Tammy Nemeth [00:34:17] But thank you for making that point, because I think people there’s a disconnect between having a reliable and affordable secure energy and national security and people forgotten that. And maybe it’s Japan is taking the actions. It is because it feels threatened. Does America not feel threatened? And that’s why its people aren’t thinking of it that way.

Robert Bryce [00:34:40] Well, it’s interesting in thinking about Japan. And so in the docu series, juice, the series.com, if I didn’t mention series that, in our last episode we went through when we were in Japan a year ago, we interviewed, a number of Japanese, including, Nobuo Tanaka, who’s the former head of the International Energy Agency. And Tanaka made this interesting point about, well, Japan is going to restart its nuclear reactors because it needs to for national security, for energy security, and therefore national security. And I’m paraphrasing what Tanaka said, but he said, you know, we got China over here, we got Russia. We here, we got North Korea here, we got a bad and we live in a bad neighborhood. And it would not be a good signal for us to not reactivate our nuclear reactors, given where are given this neighborhood that we live in. So, you know, Japan is acting as a very rational actor, right? They are going to look after Japan’s interests first. And so in every meeting that I went to with, we met with top government officials, industry officials, and in every meeting I said, well, what about climate change? What about the Kyoto Protocol? And in every meeting the response was the same. Yeah, well, we’re going to take energy security first. We’re not we’re not too concerned about carbon emissions. And this was in Japan. So, you know, there is a very serious, very rational approach to energy and power in Japan, make no mistake.

Tammy Nemeth [00:35:53] And I loved how Tanaka talked about diversified sources of energy. Yeah. You really emphasize that.

Robert Bryce [00:36:00] Yeah.

Stuart Turley [00:36:01] Guys on the the whole team here, there’s only about a 30 mile pipeline in order to connect Russia to China. And I think that we’re going to lose, China. As an ally. Because we’ve stopped that pipeline several times, you would think you would want that whole pipeline coming from Russia and Russia’s power coming out. You think we would be okay? Hey. Yeah. It’s a good energy investment for that. Japan has to import all their power except for your nuclear. Any thoughts on geopolitical and Japan and pipelines?

Robert Bryce [00:36:42] I can’t speak to the pipeline issue. What I can’t speak to is that Japan is taking a very long term view on nuclear, and we saw that ourselves. JNF Japan Nuclear Fuel Limited, in the extreme north of Japan, on the main island. They’re building a nuclear, nuclear waste repository. Nuclear fuel reprocessing. It is a they’re taking a very long term, very pragmatic approach to nuclear in the entire lifecycle of nuclear power in Japan. And that’s going to be something that’s difficult to do here in the United States, because we have such a diffused ownership of our electric utilities in Japan. They I think they have 11 in the whole country for 130 million people. They have 11 electric utilities in the U.S. we have 3000. So, you know, Japan is just a very interesting, very interesting country, very interested, but very pragmatic in their approach to energy and power.

Stuart Turley [00:37:36] Right. Patrick.

Irina Slav [00:37:38] I don’t have any other choice but to be pragmatic. They have to keep the lights on. I have to. Yeah.

Stuart Turley [00:37:44] I love them.

Robert Bryce [00:37:45] They’re an industrial, and they’re in an industrial economy. And then one of the reasons why they’re building the coal and nuclear plants or coal and gas plants is in Tokyo. They were seeing electric prices of $0.50 a kilowatt hour. So, you know, the people pay it. You know, the politicians pay attention, right? They know what is going on. And that’s where I think, you know, when we look at Europe or even California now, I think there is some hope in the United States for rational policy, because we can see and in fact, in one of the episodes, we have John Constable, a Brit, saying, you know, you have no reason. You have no reason to not pay attention to what we have done here. We’ve shown you what this what this can look like. You need to be paying attention.

Tammy Nemeth [00:38:25] Yeah, precisely.

Stuart Turley [00:38:26] Did you just say there’s hope for California, Robert? Only a little stu. I was just shaking. I, you know, it’s the Okie ears only wear only. Only a very, very little. And, Patrick puts out a good question, bill. Billionaires motivation to make more money. How many billionaires have we seen trying to become middle class?

Irina Slav [00:38:48] And they should. That’s what they’re preaching. The energy conservation, lower consumption of everything. Just try it.

Robert Bryce [00:38:59] Yeah, but you know, but these are these are people with multiple homes and, you know, they again, don’t have. Don’t don’t face any kind of deprivation. So this is one of the other parts of this that, you know, back to, you know, just why did I make this docu series? Well, part of it was my own motivation of understanding. Well, I’m uniquely positioned in my career, right? I’m an old guy now. I’m 64 this year, and I had the experience and had some of the contacts and people that I knew well, I could do this project. But what is my ultimate motivation? Well, who do I hope to speak for? Well, I hope to speak for people who are working class people, the people who turn wrenches for a living, the people who make things, grow things build things. Those are the people that I really care about, and they are almost completely unrepresented in our political process.

Tammy Nemeth [00:39:43] Yeah, you’re absolutely right. Mean here? Yeah. And every country, in every Western country, it seems that that’s the case.

David Blackmon [00:39:51] Can we go back to this comment right here? Benefits of cheap, stable and clean energy or diffuse and unlikely to motivate activism. I just don’t agree with this at all.

Irina Slav [00:40:02] Yeah I think.

David Blackmon [00:40:03] Oh renewables okay. Nuclear okay. Well that’s good. I was going to say if this is about renewables, they’re not unstable okay. Yeah.

Tammy Nemeth [00:40:13] Because I think he was talking about nuclear earlier okay.

Tammy Nemeth [00:40:15] Yeah yeah yeah.

Robert Bryce [00:40:18] You know, well, I think there’s a point there that he’s making that I think his right, which is that we assume that we’re going to have cheap, abundant, reliable energy and power, right, that it’s been there. So that’s this kind of assumption that it’s there. So and until you get to situations as in Europe where you see skyrocketing prices, people aren’t going to get pissed off. Right? So but that’s one of the things that I fear as well is that will it will take some massive crisis to make things, to get motivation, to make things happen, to change things here in the US, which I hope is not required, but I fear it is.

David Blackmon [00:40:51] Oh, I think it definitely is, because our 95% of the people on the street in the United States don’t understand anything about any of this. And so, yeah, they’re not going to wake up until they have a crisis in which, well, could be very tragic. Yeah.

Stuart Turley [00:41:07] For sure. Oh. You bet. Hey, we got about ten more minutes left, and I know that we’ve, stolen, a lot of folks time here. Let me, David, can you get rid of that one comment I can’t down here for?Oh, sorry.

Stuart Turley [00:41:24] Let me remove this.

David Blackmon [00:41:25] There we go.

Stuart Turley [00:41:27] And, we want to give a shout out to, Meredith England. A couple questions in here. Alberta to ban some renewable energy projects. Green. Say move is uncertainty bomb. Did you.

Tammy Nemeth [00:41:42] Have. No. So, I wanted to put that headline there because Reuters misrepresents it. So Alberta had a moratorium on, renewable projects, new ones. And while they did a review to see what what would be best for the province because a lot of solar projects were going to take over agricultural land, and there are certain laws that if, if a wind or solar company go out of business and sometimes they turn into number companies and go out of business, the landowners responsible for decommissioning and, recycling or disposing of the equipment, and the landowners didn’t know that. So they did a review, they talked to the landowners, and they came up with a, a new system where there cannot be a wind project within 35km of, of a natural area, which is basically 73% of the province now, can’t have any more wind projects, and solar projects may not use, agricultural land at all. And so the the activists are upset, saying that this will throttle the transition in Alberta because it’s preventing the wind and solar. But, you know, it’s protecting the landowners and it’s it’s. Better than. Agriculture and the land. Yeah.

David Blackmon [00:43:10] Well, you know, you gotta love the propaganda uncertainty bomb.

Irina Slav [00:43:14] What you did bomb. It’s a certainty.

Stuart Turley [00:43:18] I love that.

Robert Bryce [00:43:19] Terms. You know, it’s interesting to see if I can just interject quickly because this I’ve been tracking this for a long time. We talk about it in the in the docu series juice series.com. But we talk about the backlash against wind and solar all across the U.S. and it has happened from Maine to Hawaii, and I’ve tracked it in the renewable rejection database. In fact, I need to update it today, with some more recent rejections or restrictions that have happened in Iowa. But this is happening all around the world and in particular. And I think it was in Bulgaria, there were people that were arrested for falsifying records around, agricultural land and solar projects. So this, this conflict between ag land and and solar is happening all over the world. And it’s a very practical approach by local people saying, hey, we have to eat. You can put these solar panels somewhere else, but you cannot take prime ag land. And yet that is one of the key issues that’s happening here in the United States, especially, it was in Wisconsin a year ago talking to people in Christiana, Wisconsin, something like 87,000 acres of prime soybean land in central Wisconsin. Or they want to pave it with solar project, a solar project. And the locals are saying, you’re out of your mind.

Tammy Nemeth [00:44:27] Oh my gosh, doesn’t bother.

Irina Slav [00:44:29] Connect me about Bulgaria because I knew this was going to happen, but I haven’t heard it happening.

Robert Bryce [00:44:36] I mean, you know, let me, let me I presented I presented on this just recently. Let me find the.

Irina Slav [00:44:41] Whenever sorry to me.

Robert Bryce [00:44:43] Yeah. It was in Bulgaria. It was in Bulgaria. I configured this slide I made, Irina, but, yeah, it was in January. The Constitutional Court shut the door to solar farms on fertile land. I ruled the installation of agora photovoltaics on arable land, is unconstitutional. And the court said arable land should only be used for agricultural purposes. That was in your active in January.

Irina Slav [00:45:06] Yeah, but I didn’t think anyone got arrested.

Robert Bryce [00:45:09] That was last October, that there were. People were arrested for, for falsifying, reports on ag land to make them viable for solar projects.

Irina Slav [00:45:22] Okay. Thank you.

Tammy Nemeth [00:45:23] Sure. Robert, can I quickly ask a question? Yeah. I love the part about the Osage Nation in episode three that you were talking about. And I’m wondering, are they is, you know, appealing that ruling or when are they actually going to start decommissioning those windmills?

Robert Bryce [00:45:40] Well, I can’t answer that last part of that. And when they do, I am going to be there. I’m going to show going to be there, and I’m going to be cheering along with my Osage friends and my cousins and my families. They’re going to be there, too, and it’s going to be a raucous good time. But of course, Chanel is trying to appeal this, right? You know this. They’re facing a bill of something like $300 million to take down the wind project. It’ll cost them more to take it down than it did to put them up. They just filed a motion with the court in an effort to try and, allow the wind turbines to stay in place with some cockamamie scheme. But remember, it’s not just the removal of the turbines. Now, the tribe is also seeking compensatory damages, and they have a, non-jury trial May 21st in Tulsa to to determine those damages. And I asked the Osage Minerals Council, Everett Waller. He was on the power hungry podcast a few weeks ago. I said, so you’re asking commence jury damages? Said yes. And I said, what are you going to ask and how much you’re asking for? And he says, I’m not going to tell you, but it rhymes with millions.

Tammy Nemeth [00:46:40] Oh my gosh.

David Blackmon [00:46:42] Next. You know.

Stuart Turley [00:46:43] Robert, if you’re there, I want to be there, and have a, live, addition, because I think that this having a panel discussion there live would be.

David Blackmon [00:46:53] Absolutely, absolutely.

Stuart Turley [00:46:57] I’m not sure who’s this one was. This was a big switch.

David Blackmon [00:47:01] I think that was mine. Wasn’t. That was a story about, what it would cost to electrify all the heavy. Just the heavy duty trucks in America, the 18 wheelers and other heavy trucks. You’re going to have to expand the grid by 40% just to do the heavy trucks. Well, not not including passenger vehicles. You’re going to have to, import 35 years worth of total global supply of lithium just to build the batteries. I mean, it’s it’s just everyone. That’s it. What’s it called? Capital press.com. It’s a great story. Everyone should read it. It is a real eye opener.

Stuart Turley [00:47:40] This one. Wind turbines and solar panels are aging prematurely. Robert, this goes into in Damien and, Irene and David, I’ll tell you, a the wind farms are not fiscally responsible, so how can they be called sustainable? You know, from day one, the numbers that I’ve seen. And I was, I got some great information from, Meredith’s husband. But the wind farms at eight years are starting to go through again, and they’re becoming maintenance nightmares. And I believe, Robert, you had been pointing out, if I can remember, right, that the time that the particular bill, as Dan Bongino would call the Inflation Reduction Act or the, infrastructure bill, they start reworking these things at that time in order to ding the rate payers. And I’m going to ask this question with this other one. The offshore wind bid that just came through again came in at, what, 2 or 3 times, the amount I have to go look at that number yesterday that it was so they they canceled the first nobody bid on it. And then they came back through, and increased it. So the consumers are always getting these things, in the all they’re doing is increasing the price. Do you see the failure rate, the MTM, tbf between all of these as being falsified or being misrepresented? Team. This is a question for the whole team.

Robert Bryce [00:49:24] Well, I can speak just briefly to the wind, wind issue wind turbines, a lot of these terms there being what it was called re powered. So they’re keeping the original towers in place and putting new nacelles, a new blades on them, and doing so allows them to restart the clock on the tax credits. So again, this has nothing to do with climate change. It’s all about the money. And Joe. Meanwhile, the wind blade, the turbine blades are just being stacked up out in rural America. I did a TikTok on this. It had over 160,000 views just in Sweetwater, Texas. Just this massive dump site of wind turbine blades. It’s just being left out there, for, you know, and will not likely never be moved, never be recycled. But that’s happening all across the country and been documented. Many times. As far as the solar trash and the solar. Solar panels. There was a Harvard Business School study that came out about two years ago that estimated that by 2035 or 2040 or so, the amount of waste solar panels will exceed the amount of new panels coming into the market. So, I mean, this is a there’s a massive solid waste issue here that is not being addressed. And it beggars this whole idea of clean, green, renewable energy.

David Blackmon [00:50:32] Can I add one point to this, too? It’s a real threat to landowners who are signing these contracts with the wind and solar companies. Your state doesn’t have any regulatory structure requiring these companies to properly decommission and remove all this stuff from your land when they’re useful. Life expires. Okay. It’s not like the oil and gas business where you have a a firm set of regulations and an agency policing the situation, and you have to plug in a ban of those wells in the right way. There’s fines and penalties. We don’t have that regular storage structure in Texas or any other state in this country governing wind and solar. So you’re going to get stuck with the tab at the end of those Project Houston law.

Tammy Nemeth [00:51:18] Can I add something? The new Alberta rules. The wind and solar companies have to put money upfront into an account for cleanup.

David Blackmon [00:51:29] Nice. Well.

Tammy Nemeth [00:51:31] There that’s another reason why they’re angry about this. Well, gas has to do wind and solar now has to do right.

Stuart Turley [00:51:39] I saw an article that there was one of the, ones requiring that Tammy. And they said that it has to be started to be put in in ten years. Well, these things are failing at eight. So, you know, that one didn’t seem, very. Right? Right next to fail TV. We’ve got just a few more minutes here, and I. There was a couple. Yeah. I hope I didn’t get any mis stories by anybody. Let’s see here.

Irina Slav [00:52:13] Yeah, that’s that’s the last one. That’s mine.

Stuart Turley [00:52:15] Okay.

Irina Slav [00:52:17] Well, the headline speaks for itself. Despite all the new wind and solar capacity and everything, global energy related CO2 emissions hit a record high. And you know how the IEA explains it? It explains it with droughts, which reduced hydropower output and, made it necessary to increase generation from coal and gas. Interestingly, it also says that these droughts and underperforming hydropower accounted for around 40% of the increase. Without these 40% increased emissions, emissions from the global electricity sector would have fallen in 2023. And correct me if I’m wrong, but the maths does not make sense. 60% of the increase came from elsewhere, such as probably energy demand that wind and solar could not satisfy. But the IEA is telling is that if these 40% of emissions, increase increased emissions had not happened, we would have had a decline in total emissions. These people, at this stage, what they do not hear themselves. That’s it from me.

Tammy Nemeth [00:53:40] And it’s part of their new mandate. It’s part of their new mandate to generate studies and reports that are in alignment to to push the energy transition. It makes.

Irina Slav [00:53:49] No sense. It makes no sense at all level.

Stuart Turley [00:53:54] You know. You know, I’ll tell you what, guys. Thank you. This has been just an absolute wonderful time. I just I’ve, benefited a bunch of from this, and I believe, Robert, this is the website. I just want to make sure that I did type it in correctly. Correct. The, I’m not seeing. Oh, Juice the series.com.

Robert Bryce [00:54:17] Yes. Thank you. Still. Yes. Juice the series.com. I think I mentioned use the series.com. By the way, just to follow up on what Tammy said about what’s happened in Alberta. Norton Rose Fulbright has a good summary of what the the new, the new policy issues for renewables or wind and alternative energy. I don’t call them renewables. Alternative energy in, in, and the province of Alberta, which outlines that 35 kilometer setback, which is, in my view, the one of the most, stringent, regulations ever adopted against wind energy in the world. I mean, this is a it’s a major, major, decision. And Norton rose making clear this this law firm does a lot of work on on, wind and solar permitting and so on.

Stuart Turley [00:55:00] Real quick, we will also have this on, the energy news, beat substack.com, but also David Blackman’s. As well. And any of the other team, we also have it. You can listen to this on Energy Realities podcast. And so that has been going off, just crazy around the world, we have quite a worldwide, following there. And it has just been a true honor. Last word to you, Robert.

Robert Bryce [00:55:36] Well, thank you again. You know, I admire all the work that all of you are doing. Arenas, been on the Power hungry podcast and, just one of the stars of the European, journalism business. So, real pleasure to be on today. And, you know, let’s do it again. You know, I love, love talking about this. What? I, you know, these issues are my purpose and my passion. I don’t play golf. I’m not retiring. This is what I do. So I can talk about it easily for more than an hour. But, it’s a pleasure to be with you.

Stuart Turley [00:56:05] Well, Tammy, any last goodbye?

Tammy Nemeth [00:56:07] It flew by today. Holy cow.

David Blackmon [00:56:09] No.

Stuart Turley [00:56:11] Irina, any last thoughts?

Irina Slav [00:56:14] No. Except that it was a real pleasure to have Robert and to talk about all this. And all I could do is basically nod and say yes. That’s exactly the way I feel to it.

Stuart Turley [00:56:24] You know? And, David, thank you. I just heard Robert, victimize himself and say, hey, he’d be back. So. Yes. Yeah.

David Blackmon [00:56:33] Problem with that.

Stuart Turley [00:56:34] Thank you to all the folks that have, chipped in. We do appreciate it. And the reviews on this are going to be in there to like, subscribe to Robert, David and Tammy and also Irina. Thank you for everybody. We’ll see you guys next week. Thanks.

Everyone [00:56:51] Have a good Robert.