ENB #221 Behavior Biases with Investing – or the bottom line is to invest in energy segments with returns
In the Energy News Beat – Conversation in Energy with Stuart Turley, David Allen, Managing Director of Octane Investments, discusses the complex intersections of energy and finance. David shares insights from his career, including experiences with global markets, commodities, and the role of energy in financial strategies. They touch on the impact of ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) policies on the energy sector, fracking, and the challenges of renewable energy investments like offshore wind.
They also highlight the growing need for traditional energy sources, despite the push for green energy, and delve into the behavioral finance aspects of decision-making in these industries.
I had an absolute blast with David and learned much about the investment markets. I rely on experts for financial investing information about the markets. Talking with great people who genuinely enjoy sharing their knowledge base is fun.-
David, thank you for stopping by, and I look forward to follow-up interviews. – Stu
Check out Octane Here: https://octane.nyc/
Connect with David on his LinkedIn Here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-allen-cfa/
Highlights of the Podcast
00:00 – Intro
00:39 – Backdrop Discussion and Personal Story
02:30 – David’s Background and Career in Finance and Energy
03:30 – Energy Sector’s Near-Death Experiences
06:55 – ESG and Energy Sector Investment Trends
09:20 – Behavioral Finance and Human Decision-Making
12:26 – Energy Transition and Market Challenges
17:40 – Permian Basin and Wastewater Challenges
21:22 – Global Energy Demand and Traditional Energy Importance
22:02 – Renewables and Fossil Fuels Relationship
25:25 – Offshore Wind and Renewable Energy Economics
29:01 – Closing Remarks and Future Collaboration
Automated Transcript and we disavow any errors unless they make Stu sound smarter or better looking.
Stuart Turley [00:00:07] Hello, everybody. You know, we are in an absolute bizarro world right now. And when we sit back and take a look at the investing commodities, you look at the markets, where do I put my money? I absolutely have to rely on experts around the world, and I happen to have a van tastic one today. I have David Alan. He is the CFA managing director of Octane Investments, stopped by the podcast today.
Stuart Turley [00:00:36] Welcome, David.
David Allen [00:00:37] So great to be here, Stu. How are you?
Stuart Turley [00:00:39] I am really enjoying our first conversation and one we have for our podcast listeners. You look marvelous, as they say in the show business world. You’ve got a beautiful fish. Behind you is a shellfish. Give me a little bit about what’s going on, because that’s a good looking backdrop you got there.
David Allen [00:00:57] Thank you so much. Well, thankfully, in this day and age, when you go out to deep sea fishing, as far as I know, it’s catch and release. So you bring the you bring the fish to the side. The first mate measures from bill to tail and you let it go. This fish, I think it’s a blue marlin, actually. There’s a sailfish in another room. Okay. But both were caught by my grandfather, Charles Alfred Allen, off the coast of the New Jersey shore, probably 30, 40 miles off the coast of Ocean City, which is sort of south of Atlantic City. And these things were sort of the surreal fish stuff, you know, within a couple of days of their being caught. Wow. This thing, this beautiful fish was in storage for a long time. And I’m joining you from Lyme, Connecticut. And it took me a while, but I got this house about three years ago and it just earned a nice spot. So I’m just happy, happy to be here on the air with you and mentioned my grandfather’s name, I think is fabulous.
Stuart Turley [00:01:54] What an honor to have your fish on the podcast. So, you know, it’s fun, though, when you and I got to meet each other on LinkedIn. You’re up in the New York area and you’re up there all the time and you’re you are you are a cross between energy and finance. And can you tell us a little bit about what you were talking about in your in your video? Because you’re a weird beast and I mean that in a very, very good way. I mean, think about that. People are not understanding what economic impacts energy has sometimes.
David Allen [00:02:30] Now, I really appreciate that. I am a weird beast. I really cut my teeth on the global markets and tracking commodities in the first one third of my career. So I started in 1987 and I was an effects trader in New York, so I’ll date myself. I was a dollar Deutschmark trader in 1992 when George Soros and Stanley Druckenmiller broke the Bank of England. We don’t really have to talk about George Soros politics, but way back when, there was only about $25 billion in global macro hedge funds and they made $1 billion in 1 in 1 day by injecting the British pound from the and they made about $1 billion. And back then it was all the money in the world. Now fast forward today to today, depending on how you count it, there are something like 4 or $5 trillion in hedge funds. So, so the financial industry has obviously grown leaps and bounds. But back to your question, you know, what am I doing at Octane? It’s interesting. I really wasn’t interested in the energy space until after the pandemic. Now, if we look back at the last 15 years, right, the industry itself had a couple of near-death experiences. And I know you know this. The first happened again. I’ll go back to Wall Street in starting, you know, starting 2010, companies really got interested in fracking. They really they really improved technology since then. But a guy I know you know the story Aubrey McClendon came to Wall Street and said this is groundbreaking, no pun intended. And Wall Street spent tens of billions of dollars of capital to him, to pioneer and to others. And they said, yeah, what a free for all. We’re going to frack, frack, frack. Well, what happens when you frack track, Frack, you overproduce, right? And then they have a little global knife fight with the Saudis and they lost. So we know what happened. You look at the commodity price in 2015, 2016, a third of the companies went out of business. They had to restructure. Pioneer ended up with ExxonMobil. Ultimately, that was that was episode number one. Episode number two, of course, of the pandemic, where you saw another near-death experience April 2020, the front month of crude traded negative. We we in the canyons of New York, we watched mouths agape. How how could this possibly happen? Right. So after those two big sort of macro episodes to what happened was the C-suites in Houston, as well as as, you know, allocators in New York knew that. They had to return capital to shareholders. So, you know, I was at a really good global firm for nine years during this time as the world was coming out of the pandemic. And I saw a lot of big northeast allocators, a lot of public funds on the East Coast get out of traditional energy wholesale. So so they started with Canadian tar sands. They said, you know what, this doesn’t pass muster from our ESG screening. I said, okay, that sort of makes sense. It’s very expensive to get those BTUs out of the ground. And then they went to thermal coal saying that thermal coal is bad and we’re going to get out of that. But the next step was a really radical steps to and that was sort of fully getting out of all scope one, scope two emissions. So, so every company, every fracker, every integrated company, even a lot of that, even a lot of the refiners and marketers. Now what’s what’s a little bit all about this and I’m friends with these people these people are allocating 50,000,000,150 billion 300 billion. I’m talking about our own state sovereign wealth funds here in the Northeast. And I would call them and I would have a very professional, private, friendly conversation would sort of go like this. Okay, I got your email. You’re getting out of these 42 companies that we’ve invested for you, you know that the reason that United States has a smaller carbon footprint now, this is I call it 2021 than 25 is because of these very companies. Exactly. These companies that were. So we are collectively retiring our coal fleet, the natural gas for dry methane burns, a lot cleaner. It’s turned into the backbone of our fleet generation. And you still want to sell these. And one more thing, as I’m having my polite, friendly, collegial conversation with my client is these things are training six and a half times forward earnings, right? And the rest of your. What’s that? What was their.
Stuart Turley [00:06:55] Response?
David Allen [00:06:56] It’s this. I know I know it’s it’s it’s it’s become political so it has it’s it’s become political. And these are smart people. I think a lot of them are centrist. I would call them Reagan Democrats, these sort of high functionaries in these very powerful state pension plans. And they’re good people. They’re good people. And they and they frankly, their hard work to ensures that, you know, if they get good returns, the taxpayer doesn’t bear the burden of retiring teachers and firemen and they do a great job. But what they saw in some of these state capitals were, you know, both chambers of the legislature going full Democrat. And as you know, in politics, the squeaky wheel is the one that’s the loudest. And so in some of these pension plans, they felt that there could be a forced overnight divestment and they thought that was really bad. So so they did the right thing. They they created panels and they wrote white papers, a pretty smart white paper saying, hey, give us eight years and we’ll fully divest. And so, you know, a few of them divested sooner rather than later. So so for me, for my career, which is and this is my volunteer, you mentioned CFA. I earned my charter back in seven. I’m now chairman of CFA Society of New York. We have 11,000 members. We’re very we’re very much embedded in Wall Street. It’s a wonderful, wonderful volunteer position that I have. And you know, the chartered financial analyst is all about you’re looking at balance sheets under under understanding the macro, but also understanding the micro. And when I look at you look at the allocators globally who’ve signed up for the Paris Accord, you look at active asset managers who are hired by these allocators, who signed up for defense, which is Glasgow Financial Accord for net zero. When you combine those two, you strip out double counting, would combine those two by octaves calculation. It’s about 40 or $50 trillion of allocators who have forsworn traditional energy. Now what does that mean? Finance one on one. You’ve got a vacuum, you’ve got a vacuum, and the vacuum needs to be filled. So Octane Investments is we have we have an ETF. I don’t want to talk about it now, but people can go to my website, Octane Dot NYC and see what we’re doing. But we believe that we’re deploying capital ETF capital into a vacuum and we believe we’ve built a very cheap portfolio. And what’s that?
Stuart Turley [00:09:21] I said that many. That’s cool.
David Allen [00:09:23] It’s fun. It’s fun. And not a week passes to when we see hard evidence from the market that the hyperscalers right, the metals, the Microsofts, the Googles can’t afford to to, to grow without more energy. I wish it could all come from nuclear, but we don’t have that many mothballed three mile islands to restart.
Stuart Turley [00:09:42] I did not have the restarting of Three Mile Island on my bingo card last week, did not have that in there and I’m couldn’t be happier about that. But a net zero A.I. has effectively killed the ability for us to. Even think about net zero.
David Allen [00:10:02] I agree 100%. It is crazy. So so I think I think we had fun talking about about content for today and for your listeners. And you know, one of the themes that we talked about was behavioral finance. And Daniel Daniel Kahneman, whom we lost this year, he died in the second quarter, I think. But he was a famous guy. I met him about 20 years ago after he had won the Nobel Prize in economics. And the groundbreaking work that he did with another scholar called Amos Taberski was understanding how how bad human behavior and behavioral weaknesses and psychological weaknesses have impaired our ability to have an efficient market. So so this really goes back to an overarching theme in this, which is our brains were perfected about 200,000 years ago and they were perfected 200,000 years ago. And and the way our brains were perfected has sort of frozen because with modern, modern technology and modern civilization, you know, there really isn’t a there really isn’t a whole lot of running away from saber toothed tigers. So our brains sort of froze in development about 200,000 years ago. And what we’re dealing with today are normal legacies, vestigial legacies from our brains of 200,000 years ago.
Stuart Turley [00:11:25] I love the way where are you going with this? But when you when we sit back and look at the you describe the oil field and when they got all of the money and they went ballistic and going, we’re going to drill, baby, drill. And then they were not fiscally responsible with their money. But the ESG movement came in and they wheeled it in. And ESG movement did do a good thing for the oil and gas empire operators. They did become fiscally responsible. And you take a look at Chevron and Exxon and all of the the individual owners, 50% of the oil is created by the individuals and they’re giving their money back to the investors hand over fist and being fiscally responsible. So ESG did a great thing in the oil and gas space as we as we got to learn how to do that. Totalenergies, as I called them on the show, and BP did not learn nearly as fast as their American counterparts.
David Allen [00:12:27] It’s so true. And you mentioned European integrated. I’ve I’ve gotten out of a couple of those European integrated because they’re spending way too much money on, say, 20 or hydrogen projects. And but a couple of them are good and they’re there with an all cap value lens. We find 1 or 2 of them are very good. They’re very embedded. I’ll give you an interesting, interesting thought about about a follow on thought about that is because you mentioned ESG. You look back. So the Paris Accord was was 2015, 2016, back when the pioneers, the world were overproducing. So frozen in time, this Paris accord, because I think oil was cheap and underestimated. That’s a behavioral thing. It’s sort of a herd behavior thing. Right. But going going back to the behavioral question, this all stems from the idea that there’s an idea of what’s the law of least effort. Now, you probably know this is something like a human consumes about 20% of their calories running the brain. You know, our brain is obviously our relative superpower on this planet. And a lot of the a lot of the things around behavioral finance are about mental shortcuts, and they call them heuristics. So a heuristic is we get that if you have 10,000 hours talking about private equity, you can use these shortcuts and heuristics. But it’s actually part of our DNA and our brain brain configuration to favor shortcuts. So what are some of the what are some of the shortcuts that either aid or impair thinking about sustainability and investing? Well, you know, you’ve got you’ve got people managing big public funds who’ve been told a million times that, you know, coal will be stranded and it’s a complete waste of money. So they stop investing or, you know, fracking is going to be done within ten years. So they they actually pull out. In the meantime, if you want to talk about magnificent seven Hyperscalers are all this stuff and you mentioned this earlier, we need more energy. We mean we need more traditional platforms. We probably need we probably need all the above, you know, above the Three Mile Island. And so, so, so we think we think that there’s a herd behavior bias. There’s a consensus bias. And you know, something that I mentioned in a video that I recently cut that you watch and grateful for your watching is called the availability heuristic. What the availability heuristic does is if you hear about something ten times a day, you kind of you’ll take it for granted. You won’t really do the research. Well, turn on any weather channel. And I know that the hurricane. In has been a tragedy. The hurricane that we’re witnessing right now has been a tragedy. The fact is we’ve been so successful as a human race. We’ve built up a lot of areas. And in the last, I don’t know, 200,000 years, there have been tens of thousands of hurricanes to hit that area. We built a lot of civilization in that area. But my point about the availability heuristic, if I may finish, is if you keep hearing that that all extreme weather is due to climate change, then it’ll be obvious to you to invest that way. And by one of the 2000 ESG funds. It’s funny, speaking of, you know, 20, 2016, around the time of the Paris Accord, around the time of overproduction in the Permian, we had this gigantic hurricane in New York. We had Sandy around that time. Yeah. And people said, look, Sandy was disastrous. This is this is absolute proof that climate change is real. And, you know, our friend Doom Berger, he’s not really my friend, but I love the guy. Yeah, he did. He did a post about six weeks ago about the Great Northeast hurricane, I think it was 1938 or 1939. Absolutely. Buried cities, you know, up and down the up and down New England. And it was probably ten times worse than Sandy. The fact is, we had a lot more a lot less value at risk in 1938 than we did when Sandy struck. So these things are real, but they’ve been happening since the dawn of time and people love to connect them with climate change and they just share zero evidence with them now.
Stuart Turley [00:16:36] And I love Duesberg. He I, I’ve had the privilege of having him on, I think 3 or 4 podcasts. And I just love every single interaction I’ve had with him. In fact, I was with David Blackmon in Houston at a nape and we actually had done Bird live and there was a line to get an autograph of a guy in a green jacket.
David Allen [00:17:01] He wore a suit.
Stuart Turley [00:17:02] No, he showed up on video, but we put a TV. But it was it was everybody was like, you all are doing click bait. Well, you got to do what you got to do when you get to talk to Duesberg.
David Allen [00:17:14] Because he’s the best.
Stuart Turley [00:17:15] He is a cool cat or bird.
David Allen [00:17:17] Absolutely. Absolutely. But there’s also there’s there’s. Go ahead.
Stuart Turley [00:17:21] No, this is amazing, because what you’re seeing out there, what is what are you seeing on the and coming around the corner? Because we have a AI there, you know, investing in nuclear. They’re trying to do this. Where are you seeing the financial markets heading or where is your big goal right now?
David Allen [00:17:41] Well, thanks. I will I’ll pivot away from from behavioral finance and I’ll talk about some research that my energy advisor has done. You may have run into are Christine Guerrero, and she published a couple of days ago, a long form analysis of wastewater in the Permian. And you know, you’re more of an energy guy than I am, but I can give you that. I can give you I believe there will be geopolitical ramifications from this. I’ll give you that. The 92nd version we’re taking very seriously. The 92nd version is, you know, by definition, if you are fracking in a tight basin, you can’t just pump the wastewater back in to keep pressure up as you would in a conventional. Well, we know that a lot of the salt water is 8 to 10 times more salty than seawater. We know there are isotopes in them and some hazardous chemicals. Oklahoma’s recognized this problem, and New Mexico has recognized this problem. Without getting into regulations, we don’t believe that Texas has recognized the problem. And the wells are getting gas here. And the water water over water. Oil ratios are going higher, all else equal. And if and if and when this is recognized, I believe this will be actually a geopolitical realization. And people in Riyadh and New York City and London and Beijing will stand up and say and recognize, frankly, what a gift the Permian has been as a swing producer to global consumers of oil. Again, this is completely apolitical, but it has been a miracle. And if it weren’t for the Permian, where would it be? 90 bucks? It’d be more than 115, I don’t know. Right. So to to to just round out that thought of, you know, we actually think in the next couple of years this will be recognized maybe in the next couple of quarters it’ll be recognized by the world. And if and when the Permian either gets tired or there’s a regulatory issue. Right. And then the other side that kicks in, which is Orton’s medium term view, is Arjun Murti, formerly of Goldman Sachs, talks about this a lot, which is what happens when even incrementally non OECD countries step up a little bit. And he. Talks about, you know, in his videos, wonderful videos, talks about India right now is a barrel and a half per capita per year or around 20. Northern Europe’s around 18, Southern Europe’s around 12. What if India inches towards five barrels per capita per year? Right. We’ve got a different situation. And if you look at, you know, ExxonMobil’s 2015, they just released this, I think ExxonMobil’s 2050 outlook. We’ve got a whole lot of decline globally. And I think OPEC, OPEC’s always obviously talk in their own book, but OPEC echoed that in the last month. But it it’s not to say it’s not true. We see the exciting basins that are. Have been discovered. Guyana, Suriname. We’re talking about maybe in five years they’re there. They get to 600 barrels. Maybe in five years they get 2 million. A million barrels. Permian is, what, 6.2 million barrels a day. So so we don’t have to talk about a big impairment to the Permian to say how how we replacing these. Right. So this is a macro picture and still I’m sure you and your colleagues could run some circles around me. But as a capital markets guy and as a former global macro guy for my trading, I think this will have world wide, worldwide ramifications. I wonder what your thoughts are on that.
Stuart Turley [00:21:22] I couldn’t agree more. I like the way you articulated that in that aspect. I think that the. The more in fact, I’ve found a trend that is really not talked about from an ESG perspective as well. And that is the more we put in money into a Green New Deal or renewable energy, the more fossil fuels we use. And for the past four years, I’ve been tracking it and we are on track. So the more let me say that again, the more money we put into renewables, the more fossil fuels we use. And it has been tracking.
David Allen [00:22:03] Okay, you know what?
Stuart Turley [00:22:04] Last four years.
David Allen [00:22:06] All right. I’m going to say something. We’re recording, right? I know. We are. September 30th, 20. September 30th, 2024. Right.
Stuart Turley [00:22:14] Turley’s Law.
David Allen [00:22:15] Turley Turley’s law was first became public. I like to.
Stuart Turley [00:22:19] Go and I’ve been thinking about it and saying, wait a minute, it’s not one or the other. We need more energy. We need all forms of energy, but the energy has to be physics matter to the grid. Fiscal responsibility matters to the grid. The grid could care less about whether or not if it’s going to be fiscally irresponsible, that’s Green New Deal. Now, where do solar panels really shine? Well, they shine on a housetop and a rooftop for those that can afford it. Then you visit with folks like me that have their own microgrid where I’ve got twin propane generators. I’m near a hydro dam, but I’ve got wind, I’ve got solar, I’ve got all these others because I can afford it. Not everybody can afford it, but solar has. Yeah. And so wind is abysmal. I mean, when you sit back and take a look at offshore wind and where that is going as a financial investment, it is actually robbery. To think that is going to be good for the environment. Solar I see is being more beneficial in many areas. I see some upside for solar Nuclear. We talked about big time. I really believe that there’s like we laughed about. I did not have been on that on my bingo card. I think we will.
David Allen [00:23:44] Say, that was very clever. Bing, which is Microsoft’s search engine. Very clever.
Stuart Turley [00:23:49] Bingo card.
David Allen [00:23:50] Well, let me I’ll agree. So I agree that the local use cases for solar are many. And I’ll just go back to I’ll go back, I’ll echo on on offshore wind. You know, Wall Street Wall Street spends globally, you know, the buy side, the sell side. We spend billions of dollars, too, on data and analyzing data. Okay, here’s the problem. I’ve seen all sorts of offshore wind stuff. I’ve seen you know, I’ve talked to the UN pension, I’ve talked to just about everybody who is who are sponsors of these things. And I’ve asked these people again, politely collegially. Sometimes they show us the carbon j curve, right? So the J curve. J curve is, is, is common. It’s a common term in private equity. What that means is, you know, you and I go out, we buy a fast, casual restaurant train chain in Greater Chicago with, you know, 50 restaurants. Right. We buy it from from from a family. They no longer want to run the business. What do we do? We we do some roll ups. We get some more casual, fast casual restaurants. We do a marketing blitz. We do some hiring. Right. So we’ve got to spend money. So. So we buy the. We buy this asset and there’s a J curve. We got to put more money into it or put more money into it. And then if everything goes right, we expand our margins, we expand our revenues. It comes out of the J curve. We’re breaking even and then we’re now we’re really profitable. And then we do an IPO. That’s a jaker. Nobody has bothered. This is a $100 billion leader of offshore wind. Nobody’s bothered to show anybody the carbon j curve. Okay.
Stuart Turley [00:25:26] And, David, but how.
David Allen [00:25:27] Much concrete do you know? Do you know California wants to use the space base down in Southern California as a jump off spot for their offshore deepwater wind. They have to build new vessels. They have to build a port at the space base. They can’t even figure out they can’t even figure out the economics of offshore wind in 100ft of sand water about 50 miles from me off a block island on the Long Island Sound. That hasn’t even been economical. So I don’t I don’t know what they’re doing.
Stuart Turley [00:25:58] They can’t do it. And in fact, David, when we take a look at offshore wind, the they do not they don’t ever become profitable, period. And the only reason that they do make money is after five years, that they get to shut them down, reapply for more money from the Inflation Reduction Act, or as in Dan Bongino calls it, the poor keyless bill. And then they get to re pull those turbines off line because maintenance wise, they are out of warranty and they are too expensive to maintain after four years. People saying their last 30 years are nuts. They don’t even last four. And then when you take a look at they are turbines. David the definition of a turbine means they draw energy from the grid to turn the blades until they get to a certain point. That’s where Scotland had 14,000 windmills or they took down excuse me, they took down 14,000 trees. But they’re burning all this oil diesel generators to turn the windmills to keep them going until they can get up to speed. And then they never eliminate the carbon footprint from the steel, from the concrete, from the diesel in energy, from the micro-plastics, killing the whales when the offshore wind does not make sense to me.
David Allen [00:27:28] Not at all. Not at all. And we’ll we’ll wait patiently for for the statistics around that.
Stuart Turley [00:27:34] They can’t give you a J curve. Sorry.
David Allen [00:27:36] You’re right. You’re right. But you’d think they’d do it before they spend $100 billion of taxpayer money.
Stuart Turley [00:27:42] Well, you mentioned taxpayer money. Who makes money off of the taxpayer money?
David Allen [00:27:47] You know that’s so true.
Stuart Turley [00:27:49] The politicians getting the kickback from those firms. So and when we take a look at New York and New Jersey, they’re following in line with Germany was the Green New Deal, the original one. They have the industrialized UK says, hold my beer.
David Allen [00:28:08] You’re totally right.
Stuart Turley [00:28:09] It’s gone bonkers. Then you take Gavin Newsom and you take Governor Holcomb and then the governor of New Jersey. All of them are vying for hold my October fest. I mean, this is not even. Hold my beer. This is hold my October Fest. You know, those waitresses walk by with 15 big steins of beer.
David Allen [00:28:31] Sorry. It’s it’s really bad. And you know what? I’d really love to see them. The three people you named, Governor Murphy as well in New Jersey, former Goldman Sachs guy. I’d like them to show us living how to live without fossil fuels, without for for a week for just just try for a week. And then I say, no, you know what? Just try a day. No, no, not a day. Try four hours because everything goes away. You don’t have clean water. You don’t have sewer sanitation. Nothing in New York City. New York City wouldn’t survive an hour without it. So it’s it’s simply amazing.
Stuart Turley [00:29:01] Well, I’ll tell you, David, how do people get a hold of you?
David Allen [00:29:04] Well, you can find me on LinkedIn. David, Alan, CFA and Dmae, you could also go to our website Octane dot NYC. And look, I hope to be back. I hope too. Absolutely. And I content.
Stuart Turley [00:29:18] Excuse me. I think that this was such a great conversation. I get excited because I got about 9000 more things to visit with you. I’d like to have you back and let’s have a another series on this in the financial realm, because your expertise, there’s not many of you out there. And I mean that in a very nice way, that you are a weird beast. And I and I that is a I wouldn’t put that on your resume yet, but that is meant to be a very high compliment.
David Allen [00:29:47] Well, I love it. Look, I take that as a compliment that I’d love to collaborate with you again and I’ll close with this thought. Stanley Druckenmiller, who’s one of the gods of Hedge. Funds said a few years ago. He said, You know, I love the guys from Texas. They’re always a lot of fun. But I’ve never met one of them who hasn’t asked me for money to put another hole in the ground. And so I think I think what I am now, this strange beast piece that I am, I’m actually perhaps a synthesis of, you know, northeastern capital allocation who who gets what you guys do, but also wants to do it in a way that that makes sense for capital allocation. And that’s why I’m so grateful to be here with you still.
Stuart Turley [00:30:29] Well, thank you for your time. And again, I cannot wait to our next one. Thank you, David.
David Allen [00:30:33] Let’s do it. Thank you. Good to see you.
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