THE CRUDE TRUTH Ep. 37 Joseph Batir and Trey Cortez: Geothermal Energy and Whiskey.
#oilandgas, #geothermal, and #whiskey; Yes they go together. On this episode of THE CRUDE TRUTH, we dive into the world of Geothermal Energy with Expert Joseph Batir. And we discuss how temperature and heat transfer are a big part in making a barrel of whiskey. Enjoy learning more about these great topics on this episode of THE CRUDE TRUTH.
Please reach out to Joseph Batir on his Linkedin HERE
Please reach out to Trey Cortez on his Linkedin HERE
Check out StatusJet HERE
Highlights of the Podcast
00:00 – Intro
03:01 – Joseph Batir can you tell us something about yourself and let the viewers know about you?
04:59 – Definition and Use of Geothermal
05:51 – Talks about Texas Rye called Cooper Family Rye
08:12 – Can we transition Oil and Gas Wells to Geothermal Wells?
11:39 – So to sit here and think that it’s possible to actually use the hot water to generate more energy, which would then generates more power, that would be huge.
13:58 – You talked about how you could actually then also use the manpower from the oil and gas industry because a lot of the stuff is the same
15:49 – How big is normally a wellbore for something?
17:32 – Talks about Lift
18:49 – When it comes to the volume, are we putting it back in the ground in some cases, or in some cases are we are is it going back to you in some cases and it coming out and it staying out another case?
22:10 – Talks about Balconies and Macallan 12 Whisky
28:30 – When we look at geothermal and right now in geothermal, there are probably half a dozen new ideas on how we can produce this heat from beneath our feet.
32:36 – Do you think it would be possible for if the conditions are right, that you could power a small town of a thousand people to 5000 people on Geothermal like with their own power grid?
36:50 – Once Geothermal is a household name, the way oil and gas are, then I think people will start to see how and why and where, and what the value is
38:41 – Trey Talks about his background and how he started with Whisky
45:25 – Trey, where can people find you if, if, for whatever reason, they want to talk whiskey or maybe some geology
46:52 – Where you can find Joseph
48:55 – Outro
THE CRUDE TRUTH Ep. 37 Joseph Batir and Trey Cortez: Geothermal Energy and Whiskey.
Rey Trevino [00:00:00] Geothermal is it the future? Let’s talk about that and I bring back an old guest on this Episode of The Crude Truth.
Rey Trevino [00:01:06] Well, Good Afternoon, Good Morning, Good Evening, thank you, as always for watching another Episode of The Crude Truth. I cannot thank you all enough here. Recently that showed that I was in the top 25 of the most watched hour subscribed Energy Podcasts, So thank you all very, very much and please be sure to Like and Subscribe.
Rey Trevino [00:01:30] I also have a LinkedIn and also now a Twitter it’s called @Truth_Crude. So please, please still ask any questions, and send any feedback. I’d love to always answer any questions that you may have. That being said, I cannot once again thank my guests that are on today. As in my little teaser, I said I brought back somebody old.
Rey Trevino [00:01:52] However, I’m also bringing in somebody that is just truly world-renowned right now he has been all over the place talking about Geothermal Energy. For those of you that don’t know what it is, I’m right there with you I have a little bit of an understanding, but I wanted to have a good conversation today with this individual and also bring back a Geologist that also can understand a little bit about it. And maybe we might even have to have a drink or two along the way. Today my guests are Joseph Batir and Trey Cortez. Gentlemen, How are you all?
Joseph Batir [00:02:26] Doing well here in talkin’? Uh, yeah.
Trey Cortez [00:02:30] Thanks for having us.
Rey Trevino [00:02:31] Well, thank you, guys. Joseph, thank you for coming on for the first time. And, Trey, thank you for coming back again.
Trey Cortez [00:02:36] My pleasure.
Rey Trevino [00:02:38] There’s no secret about it. Will get out of the way that obviously you are a whiskey connoisseur, so obviously, we’ll have to bus one out here in a minute.
Trey Cortez [00:02:45] I think so.
Rey Trevino [00:02:45] Just. Highlight you. You have your own Podcast you are part of a group that is just blazing a trail right now with Geothermal while Baby Trace sets us up for our first round. Can you tell us something about yourself and let the viewers know about you?
Joseph Batir [00:03:01] Yep, absolutely. I will start with the podcast because I’ll just get that out of the way and it’s a little bit easier to explain. A podcast called Energy Transition Solutions, where we talk about all things Energy Transition. I like to say the mission or the goal is to answer the question of how do we keep our current way of living. Our creature comforts all of the stuff we’ve grown accustomed to while also having a reliable, resilient, clean, abundant energy grid and lifestyle so that’s the podcast.
Joseph Batir [00:03:38] And my day job is with a company called Tevera, we are a subsurface consulting company. My focus is Geothermal lead. So I do all things Geothermal, whether that is doing in building subsurface characterization and conceptual models, basically like reservoir modeling all the way through helping companies understand how they would take what they have already and transition that into a geothermal producing asset.
Rey Trevino [00:04:07] Yes, I know I had a chance to meet you several months back, actually, at an event that Trey and his group and I’m sorry, Trey, what group is at.
Trey Cortez [00:04:15] The Forward Geological Society.
Rey Trevino [00:04:17] Forward Geological Society, Shout out to them that you came and spoke to them and you had some great stuff on literally starting at the beginning and then getting it to the end source. So I thought that was really cool.
Rey Trevino [00:04:29] And you’ve been speaking across the country about Geo and about how we really are something that can be really, really important and useful during this, what people call the Energy Transition, again, thank you so much.
Joseph Batir [00:04:45] Yeah, absolutely. I’m excited to be here and excited to talk about it because I think what I’ve learned is that the understanding of what is geothermal is the first stepping stone to people actually thinking about how it’s possible.
Rey Trevino [00:04:59] Well, you know, let’s talk about that you know, let’s let’s let’s define it, because here we all are. We’re all basically tie off, code off. It’s hot, right? I mean, it’s summertime, so that’s what Geothermal is, right? It’s hot.
Joseph Batir [00:05:12] Well. Yeah. So, yes, it’s hot. It is the heat that is flowing up out of the air. And the use of Geothermal is taking that heat, harnessing it and putting it to use, making good value of it, whether that’s sitting in a hot spring or whether that’s producing electricity or actually you could even run that through a chiller and produce cold from it.
Rey Trevino [00:05:37] Wow.
Joseph Batir [00:05:38] That’s what we need to be doing right now.
Rey Trevino [00:05:40] I’ll be yeah, it is a little warm in here. Trey which one did. For those of you that are just listening, Trey has already poured us our first try today. What do we get?
Trey Cortez [00:05:51] Yeah. So I thought about the trend of the topic today and picked a couple of whiskeys that temperature and heat transfer was important. So I’ll start us off with a little easier drinker and this is actually a Texas rye called Cooper Family rye they’re made in San Antonio, Texas.
Trey Cortez [00:06:07] And why this is important is that you know, Texas is a has is booming in whiskey right now and people either love it or hate it. And one of the reasons people hate it is that it’s kind of bold flavor and kind of punches you in the face strong flavors. And part of that is because it ages quickly because we have big heat fluctuations from the hot and cold.
Trey Cortez [00:06:27] So what this distillery has done with is they installed HVAC in their Rick houses so they don’t have them on all the time. But in the times of the year where it gets really hot or really cold, they try to kind of bring it down a little bit, heating it up or cooling it down. So this you know, this is a Texas rye whiskey that’s a little bit more delicate and flavor, Easier to drink than a lot of the elements.
Rey Trevino [00:06:50] Hmm.
Trey Cortez [00:06:52] Cheers.
Rey Trevino [00:06:52] Cheers.
Joseph Batir [00:06:53] Cheers.
Rey Trevino [00:06:54] Oh, it’s also good. Oh, that’s nice. That’s really good. Yeah.
Joseph Batir [00:07:03] Then get them on it.
Trey Cortez [00:07:05] Really, Honey? Really Buttery. Like Rye has kind of a Cinnamony spiciness there on the tip of your tongue.
Rey Trevino [00:07:11] Right.
Trey Cortez [00:07:12] But what’s great about this? Usually, Texas rise, it’ll hit you that’s the cinnamon spicy and then it just goes to, like, oak and burn on the back end, this one kind of mellows out a little bit on the back.
Rey Trevino [00:07:24] I like that. That after with that buttery taste in the mouth. Oh, yeah.
Trey Cortez [00:07:32] So, yeah, this is one of my favorites it’s really easy to find.
Rey Trevino [00:07:35] So that was very easy. Yes. No, that one was right there and I like the little box around.
Trey Cortez [00:07:40] Oh, really?
Rey Trevino [00:07:41] That’s for but. Oh, really?
Trey Cortez [00:07:46] Yeah.
Rey Trevino [00:07:47] Well, when we’re talking, you’ll thank you, guys, for doing this today I cannot think of enough. A Geothermal you know, one thing that I have written about myself is that Oil and Gas can use it. And what I mean by that is that we can transition Yeah I say the word. All Oil and Gas Wells into Geothermal wells. First of all, can we do that, guys?
Joseph Batir [00:08:12] The answer would be it depends on a classic geologist’s answer.
Rey Trevino [00:08:18] Okay.
Joseph Batir [00:08:20] But so I think that there’s there is the opportunity to transition wells into using them for Geothermal Energy. But I’m glad we got Trey here he knows way more about wells themselves than I do, because when actually an area that we both worked the for Trinidad field and it has a lot of hot water production the in the realm of 230-240 degrees Fahrenheit which is hot enough to produce energy. But the question is, do you have enough flow and can the wells actually sustain it?
Trey Cortez [00:08:59] So they sure did for us. But yeah, I mean, there are some fields that are more prolific of an aquifer, something like East Texas, where you have these stacked carbonates that are fractured. Not only do you have the energy that is created by one particular reservoir, but we have these enormous vertical fractures that connect up several.
Trey Cortez [00:09:20] And so unless there are just major, major battles between like shales or impermeable or the fracture stops. Yeah. You know, sometimes you can get limited reservoirs, but from what we experienced, there was very little limit to the amount of water that could be produced, you know, in Trinidad.
Joseph Batir [00:09:36] Well, yeah. So, so for Trinidad, I would say, is an example of an opportunity for co-production where you can produce it the way it’s produced. And instead of sending that water directly to the water tank or into an injection or whatever disposal you have, send it through a heat exchanger first, generating a little bit of electricity. You’ve got a small capital expense buying some new surface equipment.
Rey Trevino [00:10:00] Yeah,
Joseph Batir [00:10:00] But you can generate some revenue with that, that could either offset your operating expenses or depending on how much flow you’ve got, maybe it’s an actual viable commercial revenue generator.
Rey Trevino [00:10:14] So you can co I’ll use the word co-mingle because like in different formations in the zone, sometimes we can pump oil out from different formations, but you can actually produce electrical energy two separate ways from one oil from one well? in some scenarios like get this Trinidad, that’s pretty cool.
Trey Cortez [00:10:30] With a similar concept that’s been happening for a while with natural gas, if you have a natural gas generator on on-site. You just strip some of the gas out and use that to power the generator that powers the pumps or whatever.
Trey Cortez [00:10:43] So this would be a similar idea. You’d have like a unit that’s self-contained and kind of powers itself. And if you have enough left over, you can put it back into the grid or go to another battery or something like that.
Joseph Batir [00:10:55] Yeah, that’s, that’s exactly it. Just a stranded resource why not utilize it, produce it, and get some money from it?
Rey Trevino [00:11:04] That’s I didn’t even think about that. I mean you have maybe trading still like me. Yeah because I, I do you know produce oil and natural gas at the same time and I just didn’t think about the water table water coming up as well.
Rey Trevino [00:11:17] Because, you know, for a lot of people, you know, I sometimes I like to say I’m a water producer in that I just get oil, you know, and on the side because, you know, sometimes you might only get like a 10% oil cut yourself. Right?
Rey Trevino [00:11:33] And of course, we either trucked water out or we got to, you know, you know, put it back down into us water disposal or something like that. So to sit here and think that it’s possible to actually use the hot water to generate more energy, which would then generates more power, that would be huge.
Trey Cortez [00:11:51] You know.
Rey Trevino [00:11:52] Has anybody done anything like that now?
Joseph Batir [00:11:54] There are there have been past projects. Well, there are three or four projects currently that are funded through the Department of Energy Geothermal Technology office. Okay. One of those is actively producing power right now. It’s in the Blackburn oil field in Nevada.
Rey Trevino [00:12:16] Okay.
Joseph Batir [00:12:16] And that is a co-production setting where they are actively producing oil and then hot water. And they’re taking that high water and this was a field from a recent presentation I saw this field already had chillers on it to cool off the oil and cool off the water.
Rey Trevino [00:12:33] Okay.
Joseph Batir [00:12:33] Before sending it in the pipeline or disposing of the water.
Rey Trevino [00:12:37] Yeah.
Joseph Batir [00:12:37] So they’re replacing those chillers with their ORC Organic Reagan Cycle units to generate a little bit of electricity while also cooling those fluids. Yeah.
Trey Cortez [00:12:50] That’s right. So I operate in Wyoming and we have a big problem in the winter because it gets so cold. Facilities freeze up. And so it makes me think that it’s a lot cheaper. Probably if you have a deep producer in the area, to have to be able to just pipe, you know, warm water through pipes. I mean, I don’t even know if you would need a, you know, something more than that. But, you know, it’s yeah, it’s something that starts greasing the wheels.
Joseph Batir [00:13:18] And something that heats it up a little bit.
Rey Trevino [00:13:19] Yeah. No, it’s it’s greasing wheels left and right, right now because I can think of radiators in apartment complexes. Right. Isn’t that just how water goes through the sheets, Heats up the area? And then, of course, steam is a form of energy that you can bring out of this.
Rey Trevino [00:13:35] So it really kind of like, you know, that was why I wanted to bring you on because I feel like I don’t think a lot of individuals, even myself, is thinking about all the good stuff we could do with Geothermal.
Rey Trevino [00:13:50] And one thing else that you had mentioned in your Presentation that you did here a while back. You talked about how you could actually then also use the manpower from the oil and gas industry because a lot of the stuff is the same. Can you talk about thermal? Let me be a little bit more a lot of the infrastructure is the same so you’ve got a lot of individuals that already know how to work and use stuff. So that’s. Yeah, yeah you talk about that.
Joseph Batir [00:14:21] Yeah. When we’re talking about something, something as simple as well I think Wyoming and the Nevada example that I just gave, both of those have existing infrastructure. In the Nevada example, it was, a chiller that oil and gas field workers installed and it.
Joseph Batir [00:14:43] Presumably the oil and gas field workers change that out and put in the Geothermal components. So that is an example where you can take the manpower, the skilled labor workforce, and on-the-job training and experience that they have and start changing things out.
Joseph Batir [00:15:04] And one thing I think just in case it’s not clear Geothermal is produced through wells.
Rey Trevino [00:15:11] Yeah.
Joseph Batir [00:15:11] So all of the drilling, all of the equipment, the good design, all of that looks pretty similar. Now, we didn’t talk about, well, conversion specifically a geothermal well is typically larger. It’s larger in diameter and produces in a different way. But it’s still a well it’s still drilled with the same drill bits drilled with the same rigs. It’s more or less in oil and gas well, that are larger. And instead of looking for how water as opposed to oil and gas.
Rey Trevino [00:15:47] So, you know, how big is the. How big is normally a wellbore for something? Yeah.
Joseph Batir [00:15:52] So wellbore it’s traditionally a telescoping wellbore starting at something around 30 or sometimes 34-inch conductor casing, that very first one at the surface. And then the production casing can be anywhere from seven, seven inches all the way up to a nine-inch case. And the other key thing, most of these wells will produce directly through the casing. So you don’t have a production tube you’re producing from that seven-inch diameter.
Rey Trevino [00:16:26] Yeah. So you could I’m thinking here that a lot of horizontals and things like that are usually about that, that same maybe that five and a half to seven.
Trey Cortez [00:16:39] Yeah. That I was just thinking that does limit it a bit because usually depending on what’s up the hole, how delicate and how unstable the pole formations are, most of the long laterals, you know, they end up setting surface casing that’s seven and a half inch or something like that.
Trey Cortez [00:16:59] So your production hole that’s horizontal is usually smaller than that, but not always, you know. So but, you know, there’s a lot of places that are but that’s at least one limiting factor. My question what is my curiosity you know it’s we don’t produce up casing in oil and gas for a reason because it’s kind of inefficient. It’s hard to lift a huge column of water or oil through such a that’s such a big diameter so we prefer to a smaller tubing.
Trey Cortez [00:17:29] You can tend to get better pressures and flow better that way. So it seems like it’s a bit probably could be a little taxing on equipment to lift that much water, especially because water’s heavier than the oil you know what I mean?
Joseph Batir [00:17:42] Yeah.
Trey Cortez [00:17:43] Is lift a problem for all of these?
Joseph Batir [00:17:47] Yes. The lift does end up being it is one of the larger parasitic loads you’ve got your pumping your left and then also your cooling of your condensing on the back side after you generate the power those are your two primary parasitic loads.
Joseph Batir [00:18:05] And when it comes to Lift, the main reason you use such a wide diameter and produce directly through the casing is that you just need so much flow. So we were we’re working on a project right now and making a few economic just comparisons.
Joseph Batir [00:18:25] A barrel of hot water is worth pennies versus your barrel of oil, which I didn’t look at today, but I’m guessing somewhere between 60 and $80. So you need a lot of water to make something that is really worthwhile to produce. And from that, you just need more volume to be able to produce through a really.
Rey Trevino [00:18:48] Now, okay, I want to ask you this and then well take try our next whiskey. When it comes to the volume, are we putting it back in the ground in some cases, or in some cases are we are is it going back to you in some cases and is it coming out and is it staying out in another case?
Joseph Batir [00:19:12] Most of the time it is going back in. So there are a few examples from earlier on and different countries where they were not putting the water back in not re-injecting it into the reservoir. And what you saw is this decline, this exponential decline of production, of pressure in the reservoir, and ultimately of your profitability.
Joseph Batir [00:19:43] And when they realized that, like, oh, we could just start pumping our water back in and we’d be fine, then pretty much everybody started to pump the water back in. I think there are a few fields Teapot Dome is one example that which is in Wyoming that has this natural water drive, and that’s a that’s an oil and gas reservoir but it has this natural water flood that’s constantly pushing fluid up to the surface. That is one where you don’t necessarily take that water and pump it back into the reservoir but nowadays, you have to do something to dispose of it.
Joseph Batir [00:20:20] And there are a few there’s a few key problems If you don’t if you’re in a semi-closed reservoir, so you’re losing pressure. If you don’t reinject the root, you can lose pressure and destroy your reservoir. You can create subsidence even at the surface. So you can start getting subsidence, kind of like people are finding sinkholes and I think in West Texas and Nevada and a few other areas that are related to this, like drawing out too much water.
Joseph Batir [00:20:55] And then you can also, if you’re not producing it properly, you can get in do seismicity because of either pumping in too much water or not popping in and off, and then you start getting contract constrictions.
Rey Trevino [00:21:09] Okay.
Joseph Batir [00:21:09] So those are things we are well aware of. And I am all for having open, transparent, up-front conversations like let’s talk about it as opposed to You have a problem and then being like, Oh, that wasn’t us.
Trey Cortez [00:21:24] Well, I think what’s most interesting about all these discussions, especially with people technical, you know, geologists, engineers that are doing this now, is that we have the opportunity to learn better than the oil and gas industry did many, many years ago when it was just the demand was so high we were producing and, you know, despite the outcomes or the impact.
Trey Cortez [00:21:48] So you have smart people that are looking at the poor pressure of a reservoir and are drawing it out and think, you know, we’re changing the stresses maybe we should do that. You know, let’s we’ll try to combat that with some injections. I think it’s a really good opportunity to have smart people working on this right now.
Joseph Batir [00:22:04] Yeah, absolutely.
Trey Cortez [00:22:06] But we can transition into whiskey now.
Rey Trevino [00:22:07] Okay. Do it, man.
Trey Cortez [00:22:09] So this is an exciting one for me. I’m bringing back another whiskey that I had last time we were out here. So this is about going is number one single malt. So this is one of my favorite whiskeys for many reasons. But the reason I brought this is that I brought a little companion with it this time Macallan 12. So the interesting thing about these two is that Balconies is in Waco, Texas, and they source gold and promise malted barley from the highland region of Scotland to make this right.
Rey Trevino [00:22:38] Say that again
Trey Cortez [00:22:39] Gold. And it’s a type of barley it’s called Golden Promise malted barley ill bring it for this. Macallan famously discovered and started using the same exact Golden Promise malted barley that’s a mouthful yeah whenever many many years ago they switched over to a very similar barley that’s a little more hearty in there and that can be more efficient.
Trey Cortez [00:23:05] But that being said, the two products that go into each one of these bottles are very much the same. So the main difference you see in the color and the flavor profile is how they’re distilled, which is a little different. But in my personal opinion, the bigger difference is the climate in which they’ve aged it.
Trey Cortez [00:23:26] So you can sell still very quickly the color is completely different. Texas’s climate has a lot more fluctuation of temperature. And so as thermal expansion happens to the whisky, while it’s in the barrel, it goes deeper into the barrel, it goes in more times and so you get more of the color and the sugars that come out of the barrel.
Trey Cortez [00:23:43] This is this was aged in. Usually, these are like 36 months, doesn’t have it on this one. But 36 to 54 months are usually what this is aged for, this is 12 years. And look at the difference in color. So I’ve set this up on your right you should be able to double the color on your right is the Balconies. So I would recommend the smell of both.
Rey Trevino [00:24:06] Okay.
Trey Cortez [00:24:06] And notice the differences. So. Huge different.
Joseph Batir [00:24:16] It smells more caramelly sugary than the Balconies.
Trey Cortez [00:24:20] Right.
Rey Trevino [00:24:21] And the only thing different is the temperature because this they just the.
Trey Cortez [00:24:24] Main thing different is the temperature. Right.
Rey Trevino [00:24:25] The Macallan almost. I mean, it has alcohol I don’t know. I’m not I’m no, I’m not like you guys. I don’t want to butcher what I say.
Trey Cortez [00:24:34] No. I think you. Joseph
Rey Trevino [00:24:37] Oh, no, that’s good so I feel that the what?
Joseph Batir [00:24:40] Taste like tequila.
Trey Cortez [00:24:41] So, you know.
Joseph Batir [00:24:41] That’s what it is. Yeah. So what does that say?
Trey Cortez [00:24:44] It has a very promising, ah, a prominent citrus note, and straight is what I get on it.
Rey Trevino [00:24:50] Okay.
Trey Cortez [00:24:50] It’s like this citrusy, and a lot of tequilas have that agave it is kind of a citrus, but.
Rey Trevino [00:24:56] Yeah.
Trey Cortez [00:24:56] But you’ll see the same thing when you. I mean, okay, so has so much.
Rey Trevino [00:25:01] Guess we’ll go with the good smelling one. Yeah. And this is Macallan 12. Like that’s not okay with you all about.
Joseph Batir [00:25:07] Realistically, should the longer you age it, it should get darker and richer right?
Rey Trevino [00:25:13] Yeah.
Trey Cortez [00:25:13] In general. Yeah. Yeah. There are some it just depends on the length of time isn’t as important as the thermal expansion that happens. So if you don’t get any temperature change, it’s just going to sit there and it’s not going to have a lot of convection, it’s not going to go into the barrels very far.
Trey Cortez [00:25:30] And a lot of times Scotch uses already used barrels, whereas we know most of the Texas whiskeys or bourbons have to use fresh barrels. This one, Bulkiness, uses a mixture of both fresh barrels and used grills. And a lot of times I don’t think they do it anymore. When they first started these they used five-gallon barrels instead of 50 threes.
Rey Trevino [00:25:54] Okay.
Trey Cortez [00:25:55] So the surface area ratio is completely different. But I mean, this is a fantastic Scotch like this. Macallan 12 is a fantastic scotch. It’s just much more delicate. It’s citrusy. It’s lighter. It’s a. No. How good on a hot day.
Rey Trevino [00:26:13] That’s okay. Based on the smell alone, I would have thought this would have been more of a kick.
Trey Cortez [00:26:17] Mhm. Yeah.
Joseph Batir [00:26:18] Yeah. It’s a little fruity
Rey Trevino [00:26:20] This is. This is very smooth. Right.
Trey Cortez [00:26:23] 43% alcohol versus the Balconies is 53% alcohol.
Joseph Batir [00:26:28] What’s really interesting is I’m just now getting some smokiness and some, some woody ness on the back and, but it’s really more of a smoke.
Rey Trevino [00:26:37] You guys both of your I mean I’ve got this here like, well, it kind of smell white. Mikayla and you guys are both like, I think it needs to be.
Trey Cortez [00:26:45] Well, you taste the char like the char on the barrel you tend to taste it and it sometimes comes late. What? I’ll challenge you to taste both of them I taste a little bit chocolaty. Like Balconies is known for having a chocolate note it’s pretty prominent, but I just got it a little bit out of the Macallan to taste them. So basalt.
Rey Trevino [00:27:03] Oh, okay, okay.
Trey Cortez [00:27:05] Looks like dark chocolate. I use the Balconies rye to make chocolate old-fashioned.
Rey Trevino [00:27:13] What he’s made. Chocolate Old fashioned?
Trey Cortez [00:27:14] Oh, man they’re so good.
Rey Trevino [00:27:16] I know. I remember once I wouldn’t eat lunch, and you were like, well, we need a dessert with you. And I think it was the rose or something like that. I’m like, dessert was added to that. No, only don’t time, but.
Trey Cortez [00:27:25] I can’t remember what it was Yeah. So, I mean, I think it’s it’s interesting just to see two very similar ingredients going into these and it comes out so incredibly different, mainly because of the temperature which was H.
Rey Trevino [00:27:39] And I want to take that right there, it’s saying that these ingredients are so much a lot like and kind of go back do a form transition to where it’s like look at what we can do with these. Granted there are maybe some issues but that is not the trade the Tritan was.
Joseph Batir [00:27:59] For Trinidad.
Rey Trevino [00:27:59] For Trinidad field is like years down the opportunity in that field and to go in and produce basically hot water like you’re saying you know in a field that was known for oil gas all the conditions are a lot to say, but also a lot different. But yet you take a lot of the same ingredients and you come up with two different things, you know?
Trey Cortez [00:28:22] Awesome.
Joseph Batir [00:28:23] I think it’s a great analogy.
Rey Trevino [00:28:25] And I have to tighten it up. Yeah, that’s right. And Sol.
Joseph Batir [00:28:28] I’ll take it a little bit further. When we look at geothermal and right now geothermal, there are probably half a dozen new ideas on how we can produce this heat from beneath our feet. And, each of those really is kind of like making whiskey. We are taking the same ingredients.
Joseph Batir [00:28:51] We’re trying to take the heat that’s being produced from the Earth, from the formation of the Earth we’re trying to find a way to harness it, to produce energy. And we’re either trying this way or we’re trying that way or we’re or we’re adding in a little bit here, or we’re trying to let it sit and steam in this location. And each way everybody thinks they’re going to make the best one. Ultimately, I think they’re going to make the best one for their location and they’re given resources.
Trey Cortez [00:29:21] That’s good. That’s kind of a thought I had, too, because I’ve heard about other systems that do this by not necessarily using water, just the heat and pumping some other fluid down like glycol or something like that that has a lower boiling point.
Trey Cortez [00:29:35] And so it would be a closed loop sepa closed loop system cheers that you pump up the down and boil that which that turns turbines and things like that. So that may not work everywhere or you know, if you have water you use it. But if you don’t, it’s still an option. If you have enough temperature to boil out whatever it is.
Joseph Batir [00:29:55] Yeah. Well yeah. When exactly what you’re saying, just like talking about the heat transfer and the way that the whisky’s moving in the barrel, those are the same thoughts and processes that we have to think about when we’re trying to produce Geothermal energy.
Joseph Batir [00:30:11] Because ultimately we are trying to extract heat from the rock, right? So if there’s anybody doing computational fluid dynamics on whiskey barrels, I invite them to come join the Geothermal Industry because they are thinking about these problems that we are all thinking about.
Trey Cortez [00:30:31] There’s probably someone doing that. Yeah.
Joseph Batir [00:30:33] I hope so. I think that would be fine. You know, when we talk about like a collaboration, looking at how you could really add in a whole lot of science into something like making whiskey. And if you want to get very specific notes from that whiskey, you could start doing those dynamics, start controlling the temperature very specifically, and ultimately have that. 53 months in a specific profile to try and have an end product.
Trey Cortez [00:31:05] It’s funny, it’s a really good comparison to oil and gas too because you have the guys that have been doing this for 40 years and they’re like three generations, you know, for over 100 years that have been doing it.
Trey Cortez [00:31:17] And they do that by placing the barrels in a certain part of the rigged house. Why is that? Because heat flow is different in different parts of the rig house and they’ve just been doing it so many, so many years. And their granddad told them that when you put a barrel there for seven years, you get fruity notes so mix it from there and with a barrel from over there and it turns into this product.
Trey Cortez [00:31:37] I mean, all the buffalo trace whiskeys all have only a few different mash bills the reason they’re different is that they’re all aged in different houses, in different spots. So in oil and gas, you have, you know, old timers that just know what oil log looks like to do it.
Trey Cortez [00:31:55] And now you have I just got back from tech and you had a slew of talks that are just these huge data mining efforts to try and really automate as much as they can to have these sweet spots and if you do this, then you get that. You know, there’s either one of them is not perfect, but I think there’s going to be this mish-mash of them going forward that bands are a happy medium it’s going to benefit us, you know?
Rey Trevino [00:32:25] You know, I want to ask you this, a lot of my leases, you know, again, you know, we’re a small producer in a small, small company, all operator. We work in a lot of small towns. Do you think it would be possible for if the condition you know, the conditions are right, that you could almost power a small town of a thousand people to, you know, 5000 people on Geothermal like with their own power grid?, because basically you got the hot water coming up, get the power source. The the power goes out to the community and then you shovel right back down and you do it again. Is that could we get to a point like that somehow, someway?
Joseph Batir [00:33:05] Just yes, I think we can and there have been there have been people who have tried that before in terms of the community utility drilling a well and using that well for power production. It hasn’t always worked. But I think as we incorporate oil and gas technology, as we incorporate the oil and gas workforce that’s already in those towns.
Rey Trevino [00:33:32] Yeah.
Joseph Batir [00:33:32] We can find a way to and when we find a way to drill to 20,000 or 25,000 or 30,000 feet and do that economically everywhere, then I think every single small town could have their own five megawatt geothermal power plant and for example a thousand people for them it could offset a lot of their power.
Joseph Batir [00:33:59] For other areas where maybe you’ve got a lot of land that that isn’t being used for anything or you’ve already got something like windmills or solar farms that are that are there that are being fully utilized.
Rey Trevino [00:34:14] Yeah,.
Joseph Batir [00:34:15] There are other ideas that also incorporate Geothermal this is what we call a synthetic geothermal reservoir, basically using the subsurface as your energy storage device. Here you’re storing thermal energy as opposed to having lithium ion batteries at the surface. So there’s there’s a lot of different ways we can go about this.
Joseph Batir [00:34:37] But I. I fully believe and if I was a betting man and knew where and how to bet on this, yeah, I would say that the future is going to be lots of small distributed energy. So like when you go up to a gas station, a gas station is going to have electric chargers, hydrogen, hydrogen power plant right there that you can extract hydrogen from and maybe even their own, maybe even their own geothermal. Well, or some type of small system.
Rey Trevino [00:35:12] Well, I’ll tell you what I think. I think when and if not, this isn’t conspiracy theory. So. I say when and if hydrogen is figured out wickedness, it figure it out. But, you know, when that happens, I think that’s going to make everything else just.
Rey Trevino [00:35:28] But I do feel, though, that Geothermal would fall under the hydrogen, in my opinion, because it is again, we’re still dealing with water. And I think if if we can do that, I mean, how much more? Well, because you talk about, you know, pennies on the dollar for water.
Rey Trevino [00:35:47] Well, you know what? Oil at one time was a lot less than what it is today and it was still a multi. Think about it. You know, there’s some families in Fort Worth that were making money, multi million dollars at $1 a barrel the long time ago.
Rey Trevino [00:36:04] So I could see Geothermal possibly if it was done correctly being able to be something that makes a lot of money in the ESG investment world down the road as well. And so I just cannot thank you enough for coming on and talking just because you are right. You are that guy that is out there right now talking about it.
Rey Trevino [00:36:27] I don’t see a lot of other people talking about Geothermal. I really don’t. I see a lot of people talking about wind, solar and how good ESG is. Well, you know what? Guess what? ESG also does have Geothermal under the umbrella it’s just not the ESG that the mainstream media talks about.
Joseph Batir [00:36:44] Yep. Yeah, well, glad to be here and as I said, I think the most important part is everybody understanding once Geothermal is a household name, the way oil and gas is, then I think people will start to see how and why and where and what the value is.
Joseph Batir [00:37:03] And at the last point I’m going to make on that, not to get political, but in the last in the last legislative session in Texas, the rights to the heat were I don’t know how to what just how to phrase it but though the the rights to the heat are a surface land owner. Right. According to the the recent law that was just passed in the last legislative session. I’m sure you’re going to get plenty of emails now, now that I said that.
Joseph Batir [00:37:37] But that means that anybody who owns a house, anybody who owns a ranch, anybody who has any mortgage or a title or deed, they they are now Geothermal heat owners. So it matters, too, that this matters to them.
Rey Trevino [00:37:57] I’m going to. Wow. That that could be a huge game changer and people want to do geothermal right there because those royalties.
Joseph Batir [00:38:07] Well, that’s I mean, that’s a this is another topic for another day and not me. I am I’m not a lawyer. I can hook you up with the people who would gladly talk about it.
Rey Trevino [00:38:18] Its stated it was all fact concrete thinking. It’s you wrote it. I heard all of that.
Joseph Batir [00:38:23] And that’s what it’s what the legislator said.
Rey Trevino [00:38:27] That does not reflect Well. Oh, we’ll Trey Tell us what else you got there. I guess what I’m this one I want to build up a little bit because I’m pretty excited about it and this was one of the main reasons why I asked you to come back on this is it.
Trey Cortez [00:38:41] It was something near and dear to my heart so if you don’t know, I am a whiskey nerd. I started an Instagram account called Whiskey from the Rocks a few years ago, and it was basically to put down ideas I had about how geology and whiskey overlap, both in culture and science. You know, Does the water affect the flavor? Does the cultural regions, geologic provinces, methodological stuff? And so I just started documenting on on Instagram and apparently there’s not a lot of big time nerds in the whiskey world and people liked it.
Trey Cortez [00:39:14] So I started the accounts doing pretty well so you can check out a lot of things in there. But at the same time, a real good friend of mine that we went to college together and still a great fan. Friends.
Trey Cortez [00:39:26] When Oil Downturn 2016, we were working for Trinidad Field our company went bankrupt and we did not know if we were going to have a job for much longer. And so there weren’t a lot of jobs out there we decided, Well, what happens if we go down with the ship here? I was in camp on a job started a distillery.
Rey Trevino [00:39:44] Yeah.
Trey Cortez [00:39:45] So, you know, we put together the branding and logos and all that stuff. Well, then we both got another really good job. I started working for BURNETT. He started working in another company and he started having more kids and was like, you know, it’s probably going to happen, but it’s over. So that’s not happening that’s not the announcement we’re having right now.
Rey Trevino [00:40:02] Okay. Okay.
Trey Cortez [00:40:03] So, you know, through meeting people and finding out that a lot of distillers are chemists and nerds, too, we’ve made a lot of good friends and the generous people at points distilling who make loan on whiskey allowed us to rent out their distillery and make two batches of whiskey that we want we’ve been wanting to make for a long time and so we now have them.
Trey Cortez [00:40:26] So these are those we made a straight rye whiskey and a high rye bourbon. And you can see a little bit of oil and gas influence here. You can’t see very close. But these pumpjacks are pulling out of little wooden barrels, whiskey barrels. They’re.
Rey Trevino [00:40:42] Oh,.
Trey Cortez [00:40:43] So basically, yeah, we got a group together. We funded this thing. We made it we still have a bunch of aging, but we we pulled some, we put some in smaller barrels so they aged faster and brought them out. So what I put in front of you on the left is our straight rye whiskey. You know, on the right is our high rye bourbon.
Rey Trevino [00:40:58] Okay.
Trey Cortez [00:40:59] That we made this since we were making it for us. We’re not selling it. This is just for, like, personal consumption. We made two whiskeys that we knew we would like.
Rey Trevino [00:41:06] Yeah.
Trey Cortez [00:41:07] We pulled them out. And so I’m unfortunate to some. We really like bold, like slap in the face whiskey.
Rey Trevino [00:41:14] You are a slap in the face coming out of a pop. Yeah. I’m sorry.
Trey Cortez [00:41:17] So I put a little bit of water on these two to make them a little easier to.
Rey Trevino [00:41:20] Oh, hit that. Really? Yeah. Well, we really have to wait out there.
Trey Cortez [00:41:28] This one’s comes in at 120 for proof, and the other one is one 28.8. So I cut them down to about 110. Yeah. I cut them down to about 110. You can cut it more if you want, but so the first one is the Rye. I would say, okay, it’s a really bold we wanted something really bold and really oaky because of what we like, but we did a couple little tricks that bring a sweetness in at the end, and we think that worked pretty well.
Rey Trevino [00:41:57] This has water.
Trey Cortez [00:41:58] With a little water. Yeah. Yeah. We really like it.
Rey Trevino [00:42:08] I like it
Trey Cortez [00:42:09] Yeah, it’s got a lot. It’s got a lot of oak to it.
Rey Trevino [00:42:12] That’s a sip in that there. Yeah. That’s what you made it?
Trey Cortez [00:42:15] Yeah.
Rey Trevino [00:42:17] Yeah. I wouldn’t have even known that there was water in that one, though, so.
Trey Cortez [00:42:21] Oh, yeah. Well, I reported that at least 15 points in a row. Yeah. So the other one is a high rate bourbon. What kind of something? We were inspired by one of the local whiskey distilleries, Tx West Mesquite whiskey. They made an experimental bourbon is just fantastic. And so we thought, if we’re going to make a bourbon, let’s make it with a lot of rye, gives a little spiciness and this one came off even hotter we bottled it 128.8. So a proof this.
Rey Trevino [00:42:51] But it’s yeah, this one was actually a little lighter than the other one.
Trey Cortez [00:42:54] Yeah. So rye. Rye actually takes in this. Rye was only aged for a year. We did 12 months and one of the hottest. Before this summer. It was one of the hottest.
Rey Trevino [00:43:05] Last June. Yeah,.
Trey Cortez [00:43:06] It was one of the hottest summers in Texas history. So 12 months in a five gallon barrel and you get that dark color. Yeah. This is the the bourbon is actually 18 months. Oh, wow. The same distillery, same Rick house. And it’s not quite as dark, but chemically, rye takes age faster.
Rey Trevino [00:43:31] Well, I like the, you know, judging off the bottles. I like the bottles. I think. I think if you were. Now, this is not for resale okay, people out there. Let me rephrase that right now. Yeah. But I bet that would fly off the shelf with that label, right?
Trey Cortez [00:43:45] Right. I know. Around here, at least we may not. It will distribute but this one has a lot of corn and obviously it’s a bourbon.
Rey Trevino [00:43:51] Oh, that would be good with an old fashioned.
Trey Cortez [00:43:53] Yeah, I’ve made out batches with this and they are fantastic.
Rey Trevino [00:43:56] Got something, right? It’s.
Trey Cortez [00:43:58] Yeah it is. It’s really good. It’s, it’s way more corn forward still still high proof high corn oak. But we didn’t ask. Good. So the hope is, you know, ultimately we like making these for ourselves. We are having conversations now of doing this as kind of a fundraiser in the future where we’ll grab some people together and go make a batch and will donate the money to a buddy of ours.
Trey Cortez [00:44:24] He runs a nonprofit called Project to 14 that supports vets and takes them out on a camping trips and and fishing trips and things like that. And so our hope is to have that up and running within the next year where we have people that can invest into this or they can just stretch bottles and then we’ll give all the money to to the project to 40.
Rey Trevino [00:44:45] Oh, very cool. Very cool. Well, gentlemen based off of my cuts over here, I think we’re at a good spot for the afternoon, guys. Again, I. I get excited just when people want to come on the show I hope it showed just when your boss said, Let’s do this. So thank you guys so much for coming on.
Rey Trevino [00:45:08] And I truly mean it again, to all my listeners out there that when just anybody says yes, especially that I ask, because obviously, obviously if I ask somebody to come on, it’s like I like. Right. You know, I’d like to be you’re a big deal. So it’s you know what? I’m a fan. So thank you guys. So, so much for coming on.
Rey Trevino [00:45:25] Trey, where can people find you if, if, for whatever reason, they want to talk whiskey or maybe some geology I mean, I know some people have asked you before to look at stuff, you know, just because, you know, they have is that geology.
Trey Cortez [00:45:37] As long its not a direct competitor. I’m happy to look at whatever you know I’m on LinkedIn @TreyCortez at LinkedIn. But yeah, Whiskey from the rocks on Instagram. @WhiskeyfromtheRocks that’s a really good place to I put a bunch of content out there this. We’re super nerdy.
Rey Trevino [00:45:55] You do two things I got to mention. I got to do three things. First thing is, your haircut looks great looks like you went to my barber. But. But it’s. It’s. It was. It wasn’t his skills. It was the whiskey selection that he had.
Trey Cortez [00:46:09] That very good whiskey selection.
Rey Trevino [00:46:11] Then the other thing I wanted to talk about was JP Warren as much as I need your knowledge and if you were talking about getting people to learn, learn more about Geothermal and things like that, you know, he’s got his kids crew maybe needs like a college crew because I bet a bunch of college kids would love to learn how to make whiskey and do science all at the same time.
Trey Cortez [00:46:31] Dig it.
Rey Trevino [00:46:32] But Joseph, again, you know, this idea started with you when I had a chance to meet you here at the Fort Worth Geology. That geological society’s that right time. And so thank you so much for especially for coming down for work. And I cannot thank you enough Where can people find you and were you talking next.
Joseph Batir [00:46:52] Yeah. So you can find me on LinkedIn as well. I it’s Joseph Batir and my Podcast Energy Transition Solutions so feel free to find me on there. I do have an Instagram, I don’t post things, but it sounds like I should start posting nerdy things.
Trey Cortez [00:47:10] I just tagged you today.
Joseph Batir [00:47:12] Rock.Joe.
Rey Trevino [00:47:13] Rock.Joe.
Joseph Batir [00:47:14] Yeah, so and you can find me on there maybe I’ll post things.
Rey Trevino [00:47:17] My producer keeps want me to get one out chris. Yeah he keeps want me to get an Instagram, but I’m like, I don’t I don’t know.
Trey Cortez [00:47:26] JP Warren and I had an Instagram live. Yeah. So Rey made some crazy look like a scam account and he popped onto the live and like, here’s this guy. And he was like, Oh, that’s Rey.
Rey Trevino [00:47:38] Yeah, I don’t I want to go out and maybe, maybe one of these there is one, but, but no, gentlemen, again, thank you guys so much for coming on. Well, to all my listeners out there, please be sure to Subscribe you know, definitely connect with us on LinkedIn, on on YouTube, Subscribe on YouTube. And also, please check me out on Twitter maybe one of these days I can get an Instagram account. But thank you all for listening or watching this Episode, and we’ll see you next time on The Crude Truth.
We want to thank our sponsors of THE CRUDE TRUTH.
Sponsorships are available or get your own corporate brand produced by Sandstone Media.
David Blackmon LinkedIn
The Crude Truth with Rey Trevino
Rey Trevino LinkedIn
Energy Transition Weekly Conversation
David Blackmon LinkedIn
Irina Slav LinkedIn
Armando Cavanha LinkedIn